I'm a newbie and I'd like some advice.

[Chirps]

Do I need to give them only certain breeds of hens?

 

[Griffinsong]

Banties can run with big hens but they might not be able to do the deed[they will still try], so you would not have fertilized eggs. Best to have some little bantam girls for them.

 

[Chirps]

Also, at what age can I move them to their coop?

 

[chooks4life]

Do I need to give them only certain breeds of hens?

Depends partly on them and partly on the hens. Specific breeds are totally unnecessary too... I like mongrels, some of the most beautiful birds out there, and you get large fowl mongrels as well as every size in-between right down to Serama size, with every possible combination of color and pattern and traits.

Some banty males can't manage with big hens but mine always did fine, even if the size difference was like an apple trying to mate with a pumpkin --- massive size difference.

It's not true that a male needs to hold on with his beak, I think that's juvenile practice behavior soon grown out of in most males, at least going by my experiences, but probably continues to apply to roosters from breeds where the females have no interest in males and therefore only cooperate if coerced. My males never had a lack of willing females and almost all grew out of holding on with their beaks.

I had one male-female pair who would literally mate while he leaped through the air over the top of her, no physical contact made beyond the cloaca contact... Puts a new spin on the supposedly normal fussing and wrangling many other chickens need to mate, certainly it's not truly necessary!

Banties who are stuck mentally into the habit of holding onto a hen's neck or head feathers with their beaks fail to mate with large fowl because of the body size difference. Those smart enough to know they don't need to hold on, and fortunate enough to live with willing hens, simply don't hold on and move down the hen's body to reach the appropriate area.

If they're smart enough and the hens are willing they will manage no matter the size difference, and the same is true for all other species, like you can see when miniature male dogs, cattle etc mate normal size female dogs or cattle --- as long as both parties are willing, cooperation and success is basically always the outcome. Many times I've seen miniature bulls in with cows twice their size, whom they could not mount normally, but both parties solve the issue by moving to a hillside to mate and the cow stands downhill so the midget can reach. Large dogs enable mini dogs to mate by sitting or lying down if necessary. Where there is a will there is a way, lol, I tend to view males that can't figure out how to mate as abnormalities who probably should not be bred. But I am very judgmental like that, lol... Doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

To simplify things for both you and them, though, for a start banties are a better bet. Also large fowl hens are sometimes less tolerant of banties. If you do want larger hens as well, just try to source them from someone who integrates banties and LF, so you have a better chance of them being tolerant.

Also, at what age can I move them to their coop?

Any age, in fact asap is probably best as long as they are a healthy weight and the temperatures aren't terrible out there. I free range mine from day one, in fact they hatch out in the yard or coop or paddock. They gain much greater health from free ranging or at least experiencing as normal a life as possible from day one.

With yours, given their background, I would assume they are slightly immunologically compromised, and spend time researching and applying immune system strengtheners and just general health aids, to get them to peak condition before you get any other birds. Give them at least another two months, I think, while you work on getting them as hale and hearty as possible, otherwise with their compromised background you risk losing them to a relatively mild disease brought in by new stock who quite likely would not show symptoms nor suffer from it themselves.

While you can't put into babies later on what never went in there in the first place, you can via some TLC get them into a good and steady state of health, and I wish you all the best with that, but please do give them time to get stronger before getting more animals in. Even housing them separately is a serious risk to them.

If they look scrappy it means more than what you can see on the surface has been harmed, but I'd bet you know that. There are also interior and unseen issues, 'scrappiness' so to speak. I prefer natural remedies so I'd add raw freshly minced garlic to their food regularly as that's one of the immune boosters known to work on a very wide range of issues. But I'd guess you've already got a good idea of what to do to help them, they aren't terrible unlike some chicks you see posted on this forum, so you're doing well already.

Best wishes.

 

[Chirps]

Chooks,

Thank you so much for taking the time to send me such an elaborate response. That was truly informative!

I've recently added garlic to their water and have tried to get them to eat it, but they aren't feeling the texture. Though, I will continue to offer it to them until they learn to eat it. Also, they are receiving ACV and vitamins in their water as well. They look worlds better than they did when I first got them and appear to be much more active too. I've noticed that they grew approximately triple the size they were (within a week and a half) since adding the ACV and vitamins. They spent all day outside yesterday getting some good sunlight which, I'm sure, was desperately needed.

I'll continue to work on their health before bringing any more chickens home. Do you have any further recommendations on what else I may feed them for health benefits?

 

[chooks4life]

You're welcome.

About adding more to their diet, it sounds like you're doing good by them already; still, anything healthy for them like fruits will benefit them.

Raw apple for example can help with diarrhea, I'd just get cheap boxes from Co-ops etc and smash the apples on the ground for them to peck at. The pectin in apple seeds also detoxes heavy metals from them, so if they've been exposed to any they will also benefit from that. ACV would most likely cover that for you though.

You may wonder where a chicken could get heavy metal exposure but it's actually very common, there are many sources available from lead paint in old houses to soils in yards where someone once parked a car with a battery leak, or any soils around sheds or workshops, or any/all areas besides main roads or frequently used roads. The lead levels found in normal suburban areas are 'surprisingly high' according to researchers, just from constant exposure to exhaust fumes from vehicles over the decades.

I'm not sure about it being too useful to add garlic to their water, it seems to ferment it really quickly, which is an acquired taste they will learn over time but avoid initially, and for general health they should have a source of clean water preferably at all times though it's not like adding ACV or garlic to it's going to harm them. At least they'll get a taste of it.

If you're not yet soaking or fermenting their grains, it's a very good thing to do for their health as well as your feed budget, even just soaking it overnight makes a huge difference in how much of the nutrients they digest from each grain or seed, and you see the benefits in their health quickly. Soon enough they won't want unsoaked grains, lol.

I got them used to garlic by throwing it into their feed, so they could pick around it and generally get the taste of it that way before they decided to pick it out deliberately. My chooks went off Chinese garlic after the Fukishima incident, which is odd because supposedly it's still testing as safe... But either way I give them different countries' garlic now because they won't eat Chinese any longer. If they won't eat one strain of garlic it may not be the best... We've bred some commercial cultivars into almost alien representatives of their ancestral plant types, complete with widely varying nutrient composition differences from the originals, so it pays to shop around and not assume any plant or food has the nutrients it's credited with in literature.

Most animals species have a 'feedback' mechanism that tells them if something they're eating is good or bad for them via their physiological response to something they are tasting or consuming. With some chooks it's so fast they can literally peck and instantly spit out something, not swallow or hold, and they will know whether it's good to eat right now or not; with some other chooks, it takes days, even weeks before they're sure. I'm not sure if the delayed response is due to low levels of harmful chemicals currently in the plant/foodstuff tasted, or a weaker ability in that specific animal. Certainly some chooks do not seem to have any sense about what they eat. I believe it's adaptable and they build on experience and get quicker responses the longer they practice/stimulate and reinforce the mechanism, like all instincts, so if you carefully expose them bit by bit to a more natural environment they adapt and learn to be careful. Some people put chooks straight out onto long grass when they've never seen grass and this is the scenario wherein you can almost bet safe money on at least one of them coming down with a blocked gizzard or crop impaction because of their inexperience.

You will probably see your chickens do the peck-and-spit as they encounter new foods and plants. This instant feedback-loop/diagnosing ability is especially important for animals like chickens and goats who often eat plants which may be toxic during certain times only and safe at other times. I reckon chickens are the goats of the poultry world anyway, can't offhand think of another bird that is so adaptable, lol. They taste a bit of everything. Just as with baby goats and some breeds of primitive sheep, they learn by tasting everything and what doesn't kill them makes them wiser. They have large and usually powerful livers for just this purpose.

I use kelp powder or granules for the bulk of their vitamins and mineral supplements, it's incredibly nutrient rich. You can buy it from most feedstores or produce stores, and just a pinch per bird per day will make a big difference in their health, and also in calmness and instinct levels, and the more generations you do this for, the healthier each one will hatch out. They just get faster and healthier with each kelp-fed generation.

It raises I.Q. in any animal or human that eats it and prevents that terrible moulting so many chooks do, because it regulates the endocrine system so the feathers shed and are replaced in a staggered pattern, not all at once.

I give kelp to dogs, cats, horses, cattle, sheep, goats, chickens, turkeys, geese, even the budgie gets some too, lol. And myself and the kids. Specifically children with Down's Syndrome benefit greatly from kelp, it contributes to them developing physically into a normal appearance and of course mentally it helps anything that eats it. I recently saw a strawberry patch cropping four times in one season just because kelp was added. It's really great stuff.

It will also give them stronger and shinier feathers, and make them more fertile with a lower incidence of deformed sperm or eggs (which are simply byproducts of better health really, no matter how you achieve this health --- you could use some of the other very nutritious land plants or supplements, like stinging nettle plant. It's simple to grow, dry, and add to their food, and very nutritious).

Also, if they were not showing their true colors due to lack of nutrients, they will within a year show their true colors. Lack of iodine and copper and other trace elements changes the skin, tissue, feather or fur coloring, irises, everything is subject to nutrition levels. I've seen 2-year-old pure white birds change into black/red/yellowish mottled and streaked birds when put onto a diet containing kelp. Everything changed. Their eyes, beaks, legs, claws, feathers, skin, crests and wattles, eggshells, all changed after a year on kelp.

It's not uncommon for livestock to show weaker/faded coloring or even pure white coloring due to lack of complete nutrience. Humans put onto kelp inclusive diets have regained their natural hair color after going grey or white.

There are a few species of kelp but whatever you can get at the produce store will most likely be sufficient; it's sold there for breeders and hobbyists who want the very best health in their pets or livestock, but plenty of people don't yet know how good it is and are unwilling to experiment, which I don't blame them for, lol...

Anything that regulates and supports the endocrine system like kelp does will help in everything from social manners to reproduction to longevity and immune system function. When total nutrition needs are met, animals don't care about overstocking, even normally antisocial animals. It helps, of course, if any other issues are managed as well like removing bullies and liming the ground to help clean it and burn parasite eggs and pathogens.

I believe kelp's one of the main reasons I've had so little disease in my flock. Here I can get a kilo for $6 and it lasts a flock of around 100 chooks for about 6 months, but I could buy it in bulk for less per kilo. Unlike many other supplements nothing in it is synthetic or denatured, so it functions in the body naturally. Sounds too good to be true but if you want to go the natural route with your animals I highly recommend you try it. I've experimented both with and without it and there's no comparison, I don't intend to go without it in future.

Best wishes.

 

[Chirps]

Thank you so very much! I really do appreciate all of your help!

I'll get some kelp tomorrow and start adding it right away! Right now, they are still eating crumbles as I was strictly instructed to do. Is that what they should be eating? Is that something I should be soaking?

I just really want my chickens to be healthy and vibrant. As I said before, they look worlds better tban they did before and continue to get better each day. Anything I can do to benefit their health is something I'm happy to do for them!

 

[chooks4life]

I wouldn't change their diet too quickly. If they're repairing from a bad lifestyle best to let them settle into the new one for a few months, because all the changes good or bad cause long term reactions.

It's not a common bit of knowledge, but should be, that when you take an animal (or human) from an unhealthy lifestyle and put them into a good one suddenly, it's hard on the body, like suddenly feeding a starvation victim rich foods; even a change for the good, made too suddenly, can harm them.

They can also suddenly go into detox or into a reckless overdrive to replace all body cells with new ones built on the good diet they have moved onto; I inflicted this on some hens not realizing that the diet I was putting them on was so nutritionally richer than the pellets they'd been on. They coped, but it's not advisable just in case they don't. Sometimes it causes things like liver issues particularly in adults fed low grade diets for their lifetime then switched overnight onto a better diet.

It's actually amazing how many birds on this forum are suffering deficiency diseases on commercial pellets or crumble. Many chicks people post on this forum are suffering problems they would not be suffering if the foods were as 'complete' as they are labeled, and the same is true for the adult birds.

I would probably start off giving your little ones some kelp once or twice in the first week, in something wetted down so it's not lost underneath the larger food particles (you can soak some grains or seeds or give them some wholemeal bread or unflavored, unsweetened yoghurt or whatever)...

The next week you could give it to them a few more times, and the next week or two just make it part of their daily staple. That's being extra careful, and if you weren't chances are they'd still be fine, but it's just an option.

I don't know if soaking the crumbles would help, though some people wet them for them, but of course it goes off quickly. I'd offer them some grits and then some seeds and grains to help exercise their gizzards and crops, because the digestive system actually needs exercise too and becomes sluggish and weak when only consuming soft, cooked food like crumble. It turns to mush inside them. Weak digestive systems tend to move food slowly along so it ferments more, and for longer, inside them, tends to stretch the bowels and stomach more, and can turn toxic, or harm the liver through making it work harder and have to filter more waste products, and they're more prone to any digestive issues like cocci if their guts aren't in great shape. Cooked oils and fats tend to turn into sludge deposits that coat the cilia so they can't shift food and waste at normal speeds and can't absorb nutrients as well, so they eat more, digest slower, and the liver is likelier to get fatty liver disease. ACV helps prevent and treat that problem quite well.

The cooked oils and proteins and fats in crumble and pellets aren't very healthy; they can support life in the short term but in the long run they are a liability. Not an issue for chooks who will be culled before 2 years old but a problem for pets or breeders. Any raw proteins, fats, and oils you can get them will go a long way towards their total health and longevity. I give mine cold pressed olive oil semi regularly, just add it to their food. For such small babies a quarter of a teaspoon each per day would be fine. An overdose will act as a laxative, great to use for digestive system based illnesses or blockages.

You can just add the supplementary amount to their food once or twice a week, whatever suits, every bit makes a difference. It supports their cardiovascular systems too, helping keep capillaries flexible to keep strain on the heart to a minimum. Cooked food diets put strain on the whole body but the heart and liver especially. Some cooked foods in the diet is fine, but if it's the staple source of oils particularly, they won't do as well, because cooked oils just aren't as good for the body, barring perhaps coconut oils. Oils are vital to longevity and health so low quality oils or ones also classed as toxins or industrial lubricants, like canola or mineral oils, should not be used. Cottonseed used to be alright but it's too high-pesticide residue on average these days.

I used to use copra for them as protein and oil source, and they liked it and did well on it. I've tried mung beans, but they hated them. They preferred millet seeds of various breeds but especially French/White, aka Panicum, which are high in protein, and I let mine free range so they could always get insects, rodents, snakes, etc to eat. Millet seeds are a great 'baby' food, easy for them to digest and high in protein.

I read in a very old farmer's handbook that olive oil in their diet prevents egg binding and prolapse. I tried that with mine and hundreds of hens later, years down the track, I've never had a single case of egg binding or prolapse, so I assume there must be some truth to it. This is including hens who were purebred intensive producers like 2-eggs-a-day leghorns, Isabrowns, etc, and various other hens who laid massive doubleyolkers; some of these hens were bought in as adults and had been raised on pellets and were desperate for oils, as most hens raised on pellets are, and as their ratty feathers, poor circulation and high incidences of heart trouble and laying problems show.

Not all pellets and crumbles are created equal though, there are some brands in America I've heard of which I would buy if I could just because they contain so many great and healthy additives it would simplify the diet from having to separately buy and hand mix it myself. I wouldn't use it as their primary staple food but it would be a great additive. I'd shop around and look at brands and ingredients if I were you because you've got some great options available.

Best wishes.