I'm confused about terminology within breed standards

[ChooksChick]

I'd like clarification about whether there is a difference between the varieties other than in coloration...

If not, why is color called color in some breeds and variety in others?

I'm thinking about things with few colors, like Brahmas- what if you mixed Brahma colors? What would you call the result- still a Brahma, right? Does a Light Brahma vary from any other Brahma in other ways than coloration?

Would you still call a mixed-parentage Brahma a Brahma, or a mutt bird?

 

[walkswithdog]

I'm going to be partially wrong and someone here will fix it if I am.

That said.

Sometimes color and variety are interchangeable. Sometimes there are other varieties - bearded, non-bearded, breeds with multiple combs - like pea or walnut or single.

In Rocks there are colors Black, Blue, Splash, Barred (blue and black), Partridge, Columbian, White.

In Sizzles there are colors and varieties, sizzle, frilkie and smooth feathered birds, single and walnut combed birds, birds with and without beards.

Marans have feather legged and non-feather legged varieties depending on the standard the lines were bred under.

If you crossed say a Buff Brahma with a Light Brahma - you would get another color but not an ACCEPTED color. Breed standards LIST the colors accepted. Other colors have to be established, then shown then approved to be accepted. Like Lemon Blue or Blue Barred.

If you cross colors and or varieties you may or will end up with a type that doesn't FIT the breed standard - it's still a brahma, but it isn't an accepted bird for the standard.

Make sense?

 

[ChooksChick]

Okay, thank you for your articulate answer.

That all makes sense, and I understand there is a ruling or a few ruling associations that lay down accepted guidelines.

Are these guidelines generally accepted by most chicken owners as rule when discussing chicken things, or does it depend on the person? The breed?

I'm wondering, because I have a black bantam cochin pullet, and a red bantam cochin roo. If I allow her to hatch babies, how do I represent her offspring?

Further, there's a lady in town that HAD several varieties of Ameraucana that- because of her ill health and her farm help being lame, got mixed together and now have non-standard coloring- who is selling her remaining birds. I know she had no other breeds, and just let it all go, so to speak. I considered getting a few, but I'm somewhat irked by the fact that I would likely have to call them 'not a breed, but a mutt: the Easter Egger' to potential new chicken owners if I was to sell their chicks. Now that our law has been changed, I'm seeing tons of interest in my birds and folks wanting some- interest is important, but I think there's a downside to calling non-standard birds 'mutts' in this case.

Any advice?

 

[TimG]

My guess is that most buyers are not concerned about "mutt" status, especially when it comes to Easter Eggers, in a hen for the laying flock/backyard eggs.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Well to answer the last first, I believe we are tlking about true ameraucanas, not Easter Eggers. But where the colours have been mixed together, and are therefore no longer breeding true to variety.

If you get some of the original birds from before they were allowed to mix, you shouldn't have a problem if you pair them up by variety.

Depending on which colours were allowed to mix together and the resulting offspring, you may or may not have a difficult/easy time getting them back to their proper variety.

Okay on to the difference between the terms variety and colour.

All plumage patterns, including solid colours are properly referred to as varieties. Yes, colour is often used interchangably, but it is not quite accurate because some varieties are patterned (laced, penciled, pyle, birchen). And also because there is more than just the plumage to the variety: some breeds have more than one accepted comb type: rose-combed RIR are a different variety that single-combed RIR. And some varieties have both bearded and non-bearded versions. A non-bearded white silkie is a different variety than a bearded white silkie.


Breeding two different varieties of the same breed together should NOT alter the type (assuming that both parents had appropriate breed type). But yes, it may give you interesting, unrecognised varieties in the offspring.

 

[ChooksChick]

Thank you both.

When I look at the definition of Ameraucana, I'm reading that if the bird doesn't fit a variety and doesn't breed true (and I'm guessing these won't, as I'm not certain she has any originals left- I've yet to see them) then it can't be called an Ameraucana.

I've asked about this and why it's singularly different for this one breed, but everyone says the way the breed standard reads, it must be called an EE, versus a non-standard Ameraucana. I can't begin to understand or explain why this is different for this one breed, but there it is.

Now, as far as people not caring, we are having lots of interest here into this trendy fashion of keeping backyard chickens, but here in Lawrence, everyone wants something to be the right label, exclusive, etc. Well, not everyone, or I wouldn't want to live here anymore.

There are tons of amazing people here.

I would like to know why it's considered unacceptable on BYC to call non-standard Ameraucanas anything but EEs, because I'd hate to launch into the whole explanation of what breed these chicks would be were I to sell them to folks using this gal's birds as parents...as I try to get them back to a standard to get past that obstacle of being non-standard. It's irrelevant that they're pretty, wonderful birds, etc...people can be quite, er, determined in their wants regarding pedigree. 'Lack' of breed would be seen as such.

My time here has made me feel as though if I called them non-standard Ameraucanas I'd be ticketed by the Ameraucana Authorities or called out for misrepresentation.

Am I being over-sensitive?

 

[TimG]

Quote:
There is much disagreement over the term Easter Egger. It seems quite likely to me that the folks here are more snobbish about it than the folks in the real world. After all, lots of folks are buying birds called Amaraucanas at their local feed store which are really Easter Eggers and not thinking much about it.

I'd bet that the "breed standard" makes no mention of "Easter Egger". Does the standard really say that a "non-standard Ameraucana" is an "Easter Egger"?

For what it's worth (probably not much), I would think it reasonable to call a non-standard Ameraucana a non-standard Amaraucana and restrict "Easter Egger" to a mutt which lays colored eggs and has some Amaraucana (or Araucana) blood and some blood from another breed.

 

[ChooksChick]

Quote:
There is much disagreement over the term Easter Egger. It seems quite likely to me that the folks here are more snobbish about it than the folks in the real world. After all, lots of folks are buying birds called Amaraucanas at their local feed store which are really Easter Eggers and not thinking much about it.

I'd bet that the "breed standard" makes no mention of "Easter Egger". Does the standard really say that a "non-standard Ameraucana" is an "Easter Egger"?

For what it's worth (probably not much), I would think it reasonable to call a non-standard Ameraucana a non-standard Amaraucana and restrict "Easter Egger" to a mutt which lays colored eggs and has some Amaraucana (or Araucana) blood and some blood from another breed.

This is directly from the Ameraucana Club page:

What are Easter Egg chickens?

The Ameraucana Breeders Club defines an Easter Egg Chicken or Easter Egger as any chicken that possesses the blue egg gene, but doesn’t fully meet any breed description as defined in the APA and/or ABA standards. Further, even if a bird meets a standard breed description, but doesn’t meet a variety description or breed true at least 50% of the time it is considered an Easter Egg chicken.

I'm definitely taking issue with it from a logical point-of-view. I read it to say that non-standard or non-variety-matching (cross variety bred?) Ameraucanas are NOT considered Ameraucanas any more.

 

[TimG]

Quote:
Well, it doesn't really say that, it says these non-standard or non-variety-matching chickens are Easter Eggers, but doesn't also say they aren't Amaraucana, though I certainly agree with you that this is almost certainly their intent.

The funny part is that if you buy these "Easter Eggers" that are just mixed variety Amaraucana, you should be able to breed them back to standard, shouldn't you?

 

[becky3086]

I would think so but frankly, I wouldn't want to. I love the different colors I have with my EE's.