I'm stumped--death by breed

[dheltzel]

I see variations in hatch rate that falls somewhat on the line of egg color. It is my theory that the coloring inhibits water loss, with the dark brown eggs losing less water, therefore needing lower humidity than the blue, and especially the white eggs. I dry incubate and yet still the RH is higher than I'd like right now, even running a dehumidifier.

 

[PD-Riverman]

I see variations in hatch rate that falls somewhat on the line of egg color. It is my theory that the coloring inhibits water loss, with the dark brown eggs losing less water, therefore needing lower humidity than the blue, and especially the white eggs. I dry incubate and yet still the RH is higher than I'd like right now, even running a dehumidifier.

Maybe?? All I know is I hatch blue eggs, pink eggs, dark brown eggs(maran), light brown eggs and white eggs---all hatch equal as far as percentage of hatch----if they did not, then I adjust the Roosters so they do the next time.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

The air exchange I was not meaning it killed the eggs, you had stated your incubator was in a box, in a box---I was wondering How it got fresh air inside all these boxes---was why I asked.

I missed part of your original post-----you said ALL the Ameraucanas had died, then you said only 4 made it to down---I missed that part----thinking All were dead.

I have had that to happen more than one time---about all the eggs out of one pen did not hatch. Rooster was not doing his Job.

Now back to your fan----does it draw ALL its air from the outside----blows across the coil and that amount of air goes back outside?? If so that would seem to be hard to keep the humidity stable and the temp.

You're right, I was trying to keep as much oxygen flowing as possible, and the temps are pretty stable because of the ridiculous amount of insulation and making sure all fresh air comes past the heat source, but it has been hard to keep humidity stable. I haven't solved that problem, yet. The fan is the smallest I could buy, but it's still too much. I had to add water four times a day and set an alarm to get up at 3am during lockdown to keep the humidity high enough.

Technically, all 22 Ameraucana eggs have died. Four developed enough to make it to lockdown (ish? They never looked good but I gave them their chance), but it's day 23, the olive eggers hatched on Thursday, and I'm opening it up and putting the chicks I do have in the brooder today.

I wish this was something simple like a rooster not doing his job, but this was just one breeding pen, with just one rooster, so that makes it such a mystery. Maybe the blue eggs are more sensitive to humidity fluctuations, as another poster suggested? Really the humidity was the big issue with this test run. I want to figure it out, since I have some pure Marans and more Ameraucana to set once these babies are in the brooder. I need the Marans; we had some predation and I'm down to too few to make me happy for diversity and of course the weasel killed the hens with by far the best egg color. Anyone have any Black Copper Marans to sell?

 

[PD-Riverman]

You're right, I was trying to keep as much oxygen flowing as possible, and the temps are pretty stable because of the ridiculous amount of insulation and making sure all fresh air comes past the heat source, but it has been hard to keep humidity stable. I haven't solved that problem, yet. The fan is the smallest I could buy, but it's still too much. I had to add water four times a day and set an alarm to get up at 3am during lockdown to keep the humidity high enough.

Technically, all 22 Ameraucana eggs have died. Four developed enough to make it to lockdown (ish? They never looked good but I gave them their chance), but it's day 23, the olive eggers hatched on Thursday, and I'm opening it up and putting the chicks I do have in the brooder today.

I wish this was something simple like a rooster not doing his job, but this was just one breeding pen, with just one rooster, so that makes it such a mystery. Maybe the blue eggs are more sensitive to humidity fluctuations, as another poster suggested? Really the humidity was the big issue with this test run. I want to figure it out, since I have some pure Marans and more Ameraucana to set once these babies are in the brooder. I need the Marans; we had some predation and I'm down to too few to make me happy for diversity and of course the weasel killed the hens with by far the best egg color. Anyone have any Black Copper Marans to sell?

OH, so you have one rooster servicing all the ladies that layed these eggs---Hmmm---have you trimmed the feathers around the blue egg layers vent?? That can cause a problem.

OK the incubator---I have built incubators---including the 2 in my pic, I have seen many home-made ones, but never have I seen a full vent type incubator like you are describing you have and do not see how it would work properly----for sure not the humidity and if the heating element is high wattage enough to keep the temp up----its got to be running a lot. With something you said---you have to keep it in the insulated box-----is your fan drawing the already warmed air outside it but inside the insulated box----kinda like the insulated box is a requirement to keep the temp up???

All the bigger incubators I know of use a app 1" vent hole behind the fan and another 1" down low on the back for example so as the fan is circulating the air inside--only a slight bit of fresh air goes into the incubator and a slight bit out the other hole----causing a fresh-air exchange----just a slight fresh air constantly so the temp and humidity stays steady.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

OH, so you have one rooster servicing all the ladies that layed these eggs---Hmmm---have you trimmed the feathers around the blue egg layers vent?? That can cause a problem.

OK the incubator---I have built incubators---including the 2 in my pic, I have seen many home-made ones, but never have I seen a full vent type incubator like you are describing you have and do not see how it would work properly----for sure not the humidity and if the heating element is high wattage enough to keep the temp up----its got to be running a lot. With something you said---you have to keep it in the insulated box-----is your fan drawing the already warmed air outside it but inside the insulated box----kinda like the insulated box is a requirement to keep the temp up???

All the bigger incubators I know of use a app 1" vent hole behind the fan and another 1" down low on the back for example so as the fan is circulating the air inside--only a slight bit of fresh air goes into the incubator and a slight bit out the other hole----causing a fresh-air exchange----just a slight fresh air constantly so the temp and humidity stays steady.

Ok, this might help. I moved the chicks to the brooder so I can show you the inside of the incubator. I'm open to any/all suggestions since I already have another batch of eggs to go in the 'bator.


Overall pic, Please ignore the eggshell detritus. You can see the reptile bulb lower right. There are two 1" holes next to the bulb. Behind the wood, inside the foam, there is a channel leading to the hole in the foam upper right. Inside that hole you can see the tubing that runs through the hole into the box into a peanut butter jar that holds 3" of water and has a sponge standing up inside for extra humidity. Black thing between the bulb and red-lidded peanut butter jar is the fan. Hygrometer is the free-standing black thing near the red-lidded peanut butter jar. Wire leading from near the bulb to the center of the incubator is the temperature probe. Green sponge in lower left is also for humidity. From the peanut butter jar with the green sponge you'll see some more aquarium tubing, running out the air exit hole you see below.

There is once more a channel behind the wood in the foam leading to a hole for air to exit, as seen below. This is also the hole that the cord for the egg turner is threaded through.



We do need the box-within-a-box design to keep the temperature stable. When we first tested it as the plain wooden box, we had too many temperature fluctuations. By the way, at final count, the hatch rate for Ameraucana eggs was 0% and the hatch rate for Olive Eggers (Ameracuana over Marans) was 70%.

 

[PD-Riverman]

Ok, this might help. I moved the chicks to the brooder so I can show you the inside of the incubator. I'm open to any/all suggestions since I already have another batch of eggs to go in the 'bator.


Overall pic, Please ignore the eggshell detritus. You can see the reptile bulb lower right. There are two 1" holes next to the bulb. Behind the wood, inside the foam, there is a channel leading to the hole in the foam upper right. Inside that hole you can see the tubing that runs through the hole into the box into a peanut butter jar that holds 3" of water and has a sponge standing up inside for extra humidity. Black thing between the bulb and red-lidded peanut butter jar is the fan. Hygrometer is the free-standing black thing near the red-lidded peanut butter jar. Wire leading from near the bulb to the center of the incubator is the temperature probe. Green sponge in lower left is also for humidity. From the peanut butter jar with the green sponge you'll see some more aquarium tubing, running out the air exit hole you see below.

There is once more a channel behind the wood in the foam leading to a hole for air to exit, as seen below. This is also the hole that the cord for the egg turner is threaded through.



We do need the box-within-a-box design to keep the temperature stable. When we first tested it as the plain wooden box, we had too many temperature fluctuations. By the way, at final count, the hatch rate for Ameraucana eggs was 0% and the hatch rate for Olive Eggers (Ameracuana over Marans) was 70%.

OK, you are set-up kinda like I feel you needed to be---you were throwing me off about the fan---I thought you were drawing fresh air from outside, across the "heat" and back out, but instead you are just circulating the air inside your incubator. I feel 2 1" holes next to the reptile bulb are to much---IF, IF IF both of those holes allow fresh air out the incubator---meaning I do not know the size of the channel in the foam, Being the fan is blowing in towards the bulb, I feel that those holes are in the wrong location because when the fan blows in towards the bulb it also is blowing air out those 2 holes. "I" feel those 2 holes need to be blocked off and 1 1" hole drilled over the peanut butter jar and the second 1" hole over the blue egg in the back about 1/2 way up---yes both holes will be on one side. All other holes need to be blocked off completely. "I" would move the water in the peanut butter jar, get another container and set it on the outlet side of the bulb heat vent(not sure it will be in the way of your egg turner) towards where the green sponge is. I would want a metal deflecter all the way across that side--over the water that would turn the air down towards the eggs.

I also feel that 1" clear vent holes will be a little to much so I would cut a piece of metal where I could put one screw in it to hold it in place and also allow me to turn the metal over the 1" holes to close off part of them as you test/use to determine if you do need to close off some or leave all the way open.

Ok lets run through it---your fan draws air into it---a little of that air comes in through the new 1" vent hole close to it----the fan blows this air onto the bulb and this warmed air goes through the vent and across your new water container while it is its hottest, circulates down and around and a slight bit goes out the new 1" hole and the rest back to the fan.

Ok water---you mentioned 3" of water---- water depth does not effect the humidity, water surface does---meaning if you had a small pan full of water and got a bigger pan and poured the same water into the bigger pan----your humidity will go higher---same amount of water---just more surface. Want higher humidity(as long as you are not loosing to much through your vent holes) use a bigger pan, less humidity--smaller pan. Yes standing up large sponges raises the humidity because there is More water surface---the pan plus all the surface around the wet sponge. Did I miss anything??

Edited to add "I" feel your eggs need to be up off the floor---so air can circulate around and under them---a 1/4" hardware cloth deal attached to small wooden frame that you can take out to clean etc.

 

[cmfarm]

How many Ameraucana hens do you have? Did they all come from the same source? Maybe there is something wrong with them that is causing the problems. There are some respitory illnesses that that can go dormant but will cause problems with eggs hatching.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

OK, you are set-up kinda like I feel you needed to be---you were throwing me off about the fan---I thought you were drawing fresh air from outside, across the "heat" and back out, but instead you are just circulating the air inside your incubator. I feel 2 1" holes next to the reptile bulb are to much---IF, IF IF both of those holes allow fresh air out the incubator---meaning I do not know the size of the channel in the foam, Being the fan is blowing in towards the bulb, I feel that those holes are in the wrong location because when the fan blows in towards the bulb it also is blowing air out those 2 holes. Sorry I wasn't clear, the fan is blowing away from the bulb and drawing air in past the repti-bulb, not the other way around. I'm guessing that changes the rest of your air flow thoughts?



Ok water---you mentioned 3" of water---- water depth does not effect the humidity, water surface does---meaning if you had a small pan full of water and got a bigger pan and poured the same water into the bigger pan----your humidity will go higher---same amount of water---just more surface. Want higher humidity(as long as you are not loosing to much through your vent holes) use a bigger pan, less humidity--smaller pan. Yes standing up large sponges raises the humidity because there is More water surface---the pan plus all the surface around the wet sponge. Did I miss anything?? Two peanut butter jars full of water, each with a sponge standing up inside the jar, about 5" above the surface, to increase surface area while wicking water out of the far.

Edited to add "I" feel your eggs need to be up off the floor---so air can circulate around and under them---a 1/4" hardware cloth deal attached to small wooden frame that you can take out to clean etc. I've never heard of putting eggs up off the floor for lockdown. Is this usual? The eggs are up off the floor in the turner at all other times.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

How many Ameraucana hens do you have? Did they all come from the same source? Maybe there is something wrong with them that is causing the problems. There are some respitory illnesses that that can go dormant but will cause problems with eggs hatching.

Four Ameraucana hens, one Ameraucana roo. The best of the best out of a 25 egg hatch. They are all from the same source--me, because I hatched them. They did all have parents from the same source, but most likely not exactly the same parents because there were several roosters and ten hens in that breeding pen. I have hatched eggs before from them, but not from this rooster. However, this rooster is the same one that covered the brown eggs, too--so it's not his fault.

The Marans and Ameraucana are the same age exactly--from the same incubator batch. They are just about 18 months old. They were all living together in the same hen house, same pasture, same nest boxes, etc. Disease was the very first thing I thought of when this happened, but I'm not sure how that could be since they were all living together for 18 months.

edited to add: Wait, I have hatched eggs from those same hens before. There were two roos in the pen, but one of them was this same rooster. I'd forgotten, but looking at my 10 week olds today I remembered that some of them were from those same hens.

 

[PD-Riverman]

I've never heard of putting eggs up off the floor for lockdown. Is this usual? The eggs are up off the floor in the turner at all other times.

Every little giant, Styrofoam, etc that I know of has a 1/4" hardware cloth above the floor---my thoughts are it allows air to circulate under the eggs too. If the egg is in contact with the floor cold can transfer to it from the floor. Maybe not a problem. All mine are off the floor. Thats Your call.