Improving English Buff Orpingtons

[jjrj254]

Yes, now I’m aware. I’ve always been aiming to breed towards English standard But recently I saw those on YouTube and got distracted but I prefer the English type

 

[gojira]

No matter which way you go, it will take many years to get there. You could import birds from the UK, and hope you get good type and size, and put an emphasis on type and size each generation. The alternative is to find a large line of American birds, like the Clevengers, and select for the English type over time. I have not really seen any Oringtons in the US that really have English type, though many are advertised as such. So, no matter what you choose in the US, you will have a tough road selecting for type.

 

[The Moonshiner]

@gojira
Any chance you could post a few of the different types you're talking about?
I know nothing about the German standard or how they differ.
I know here there does seem to be two different types. The American standard bred which I've seen at the shows and the type that's being advertised as English Orpingtons. There's defiantly an overall difference (to me)
I'm curious what the difference is between the "english" Orpingtons here and a true to type English Orpington?
Would love to see your idea of a true English.
Attached is a blue Orpington of mine that I thought was the English type. What do you see that she would need improved to make her more true to type? Give me the good the bad and the ugly. No worries I can take criticism.

 

[gojira]

My understanding is that in the UK, the birds look almost petfectly round. There are pictures in various places that show this. It is tough going from one picture, but the bird in the picture does not have a perfectly round outline. Honestly, she does look closer to the UK standard than any others I have seen. How much does she weigh? From what I have read online, I think the blues are the heaviest. I have seen 100% English Orpingtons advertised that were not much better than our hatchery birds. I think people relaxed selection pressure really quickly, and the birds went backwards. Some birds in the US look better than others.

 

[The Moonshiner]

There are a lot of pics online but Idk which ones to believe. You know?
I tried to get a good idea and breed towards that but it would of been cool if someone had a pic that was the true real deal when I started.
I'm not sure on her weight but she is big. I had some nice big show Cochin for a minute and my blue hens were a tad bigger the the Cochin roosters.
I was doing blacks and.blues since I like the blues but fell into a couple good black roosters that were an improvement for my blues.
Funny in the last two years the blue hens average a bit bigger than the black hens but the black roosters out size the blue roosters. All from the same pens.
I was curious since you been pretty hard on the English types here and I had that if done a good job with mine. I'm 5 years in and this was gonna be my last year. Moving on to something else. Love love the Orpingtons but they eat a ton, grow and mature super slow and don't lay very well.

 

[gojira]

I thought about buying a Standard From the UK, but it was more than I wanted to pay just for curiosity. I am not trying to be hard on anything. I just tend to speak matter of fact. I am not sure what the goal was when people imported Orpingtons into the US. They may not have wanted birds that met the UK standard, but were different than the US birds. If I am not mistaken, the Blues are heavier than the Blacks in the UK. Not sure why. Here, everything is the same within the breed, with varieties usually differing in only feather color. I have also noticed the Black Orpingtons in the UK are closer to their standard than the other varieties, but that is just from pictures, and my little understanding of their standard. I have Buff Orpingtons that are mostly Clevenger with some Farthing. I had a Cock that went about 15 lbs. I have one that is his offspring now that looks good at just under 6 months. I hatched some 100% English Buff Orpingtons last year, but was not impressed with them, in size or type.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I don't mind the matter of fact talk. Actually prefer it if it's coming from someone that's knows what they're talking about. We're all good there. I think you underesimate some of the quality of English type Orpingtons out there now or at least I'm thinking there's at least some worth working with that can get you there quicker then you're thinking but no big deal. That's just opinion vs opinion.
I think the buffs here of either type are lacking just because hatchery stock buffs are everywhere and that's what most are seeing. If someones into American buffs they should go to some APA shows and see those huge beautiful birds. You would be amazed at them compared to average hatchery stock.

 

[gojira]

I do show in APA shows, and had a Buff Orpington cock that was Champion English twice. I don't throw off on hatchery birds, because some are not bad. Just because a bird comes from a breeder does not automatically make it a quality bird. To me, you never know where you will find a good bird. Just curious, what is the goal of breeding an Orpington in the US to the standard of the PCGB?

 

[The Moonshiner]

I just breed for myself these days.
Out of curiosity, for fun, for colors/patterns, to see what I can do.
Etc etc.
With our Orpingtons it was just hands down because I liked the look of the "English" type over the American type.
American type was what I was used to for years so just jumped on the bandwagon when the heftier English type became popular.
If I was still showing and hung up with show quality and standard bred birds I'd probably been a hater of the English type because they weren't our standard.
I'm beyond that mentality now and with my age im just having fun breeding for what I want.

 

[gojira]

You said the English type was hrftier than the American birds. How much do the English birds weigh? I have not seen English birds that weigh what a well bred American bird weighs. The English birds tend to have more fluff, and may appear larger. The English birds i had were much smaller than my American birds. The reason I asked was because in my area, people tend to have the "English" birds because they ask more for them. Here, it is more for marketing.