In-ovo sexing of Muscovy and Mule duck eggs Will also work for chickens.

[nicalandia]

In-ovo sexing of Muscovy and Mule duck eggs
https://www.poultryworld.net/poultry/in-ovo-sexing-of-muscovy-and-mule-duck-eggs/
https://grimaudfreres.com/en/services/

"Specialists in the profession can distinguish the males (with dark eyes) from the females (with light eyes)"

It has occurred to me that the same system can be used on chickens with the correct genetic cross. For example a Fibromelanistic Rooster cross with any of the other strains with yellow shanks. The females will have All black eyes, bones and tissue by the 9th day. The males will have normal pigmented organs and bones. That will prevent the maceration and the senseless killing of day old male chicks.

Europe is trying to end day old layer strain male chick killings. They just need to develop a Fibromelanistic laying strain and cross it with other strains. That on itself it's pretty straightforward.

 

[NatJ]

In-ovo sexing of Muscovy and Mule duck eggs
https://www.poultryworld.net/poultry/in-ovo-sexing-of-muscovy-and-mule-duck-eggs/
https://grimaudfreres.com/en/services/

"Specialists in the profession can distinguish the males (with dark eyes) from the females (with light eyes)"

It has occurred to me that the same system can be used on chickens with the correct genetic cross. For example a Fibromelanistic Rooster cross with any of the other strains with yellow shanks. The females will have All black eyes, bones and tissue by the 9th day. The males will have normal pigmented organs and bones. That will prevent the maceration and the senseless killing of day old male chicks.

Europe is trying to end day old layer strain male chick killings. They just need to develop a Fibromelanistic laying strain and cross it with other strains. That on itself it's pretty straightforward.

Years ago, I read about something similar in chickens, using a sex-linked gene for partial albinism.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119425157

Since that was dated 1996, and it's not in common use, I'm guessing it did not work out well in practice (or else no company cared enough to adopt it.)

Using fibromelanosis with light or dark skin is an interesting idea to maybe make more visible differences.

 

[nicalandia]

Years ago, I read about something similar in chickens, using a sex-linked gene for partial albinism.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119425157

Since that was dated 1996, and it's not in common use, I'm guessing it did not work out well in practice (or else no company cared enough to adopt it.)

Using fibromelanosis with light or dark skin is an interesting idea to maybe make more visible differences.

Yes, absolutely. Hyper pigmentation makes sexing those females very easy. About 15 years ago I was crossing a Melanistic Rooster with White Leghorns. Candling those Large White eggs is super easy and I noticed that I could tell the sex of the chicks at about two weeks, they were very dark..

 

[nicalandia]

This is an old post of mine circa 20211 with my F1s
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/silkie-x-leghorn-crosses.483189/post-6997228

 

[3KillerBs]

I don't see that there's a great deal of difference between killing the males in-egg and after hatch from a moral standpoint. It would probably save money not having to incubate, vent-sex, and sort them but to my mind dead is dead.

IMO, the important thing is that the death be swift and human and that, if at all possible, the male chicks should serve a purpose and not just be discarded as trash.

 

[nicalandia]

I don't see that there's a great deal of difference between killing the males in-egg and after hatch from a moral standpoint.

Early chicken embryos are not sentient and therefore they are not recipients of direct moral consideration.

There will be no difference between recycling unhatchable eggs(cracked, too dirty, infertile) and recycling early male embryos(no older than 9 days). That is completely different from the killing of more than 260 Million Sentient beings a year in the USA alone.

 

[3KillerBs]

Early chicken embryos are not sentient and therefore they are not recipients of direct moral consideration.

There will be no difference between recycling unhatchable eggs(cracked, too dirty, infertile) and recycling early male embryos(no older than 9 days). That is completely different from the killing of more than 260 Million Sentient beings a year in the USA alone.

I figure that a life is a life regardless of age and that while destroying an egg may feel better to humans on an emotional level there's no moral difference -- unless, that is, it's early enough that the animal is truly incapable of experiencing pain.

The excess males have to go, of course. But as long as it's humane and serves some purpose I don't see a moral advantage to doing it in-shell rather than after hatch.

 

[nicalandia]

I figure that a life is a life regardless of age and that while destroying an egg may feel better to humans on an emotional level there's no moral difference -- unless, that is, it's early enough that the animal is truly incapable of experiencing pain.

That is exactly the point of what they are accomplishing here. In chicks that threshold is reached at 10-15 days. So sexing before that 7-9 days is a way to ensure that no chick feels pain.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

That is exactly the point of what they are accomplishing here. In chicks that threshold is reached at 10-15 days. So sexing before that 7-9 days is a way to ensure that no chick feels pain.

You said you could tell at 2 weeks though, which is pretty close to that 15 day mark

 

[nicalandia]

You said you could tell at 2 weeks though, which is pretty close to that 15 day mark

Yes, but that's just me with a LED flashlight on my bedroom. The machines we are talking about here are quite advanced and use AI Machine learning Inference to get more accurate. They are able to detect the difference in eye color of birds(in ducks that have that sex link trait). I feel that using Fibromelanosis would greatly help for chicken embryo sexing using the same advanced machines. Possibly able to sex those chicks even a few days earlier.