INCUBATING w/FRIENDS! w/Sally Sunshine Shipped Eggs No problem!

[chicknlove]

if its chirping and or moving chances are it will get out!

REMEMBER THIS WITH PIPPING THE WRONG END

THIS PIP IS BOTH INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL , both at the same time!

keep that in mind before assisting!

Yea! I have to work all day tomorrow.. I hope it works it's magic and is happily walking around when I get home!

 

[LocalYokel]

haven't paid the bill lately so marshmallows it is.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

OK, eggtopsy is complete. Note that this is the only chick with problems that WASN'T from one of Jenny's eggs (it was Lissa's). Jenny has ocular Marek's disease and while she lays frequently/consistently and lays large blue eggs, her eggs are somewhat round-ish eggs that many would advise not setting. Also note that these eggs were incubated horizontally (see below for thoughts on R-Com egg turning). Photos below (I tried to do a spoiler, but couldn't figure out how to insert photos in that - sorry). But in summary:

1) Air cell development was actually not as bad as I thought, though still smaller than it should have been, and there was decent draw down. The problem was that the chick, pipped on the side opposite from the air cell. This makes me wonder if the air cells perhaps had developed more than I realized in the others as well, though they were still malpositioned - or perhaps I should have candled those eggs again later on day 18 to look for draw down (though that might not have changed anything). In the photos, you can see the air cell extending well below what I marked as visible on day 18, though draw down was still on the side where I had predicted pip.

2) This was what is referred to on thepoultrysite.com as Malposition 4 - Beak away from air cell. "The incidence of this position is five times greater in eggs incubated horizontally than large end up and is thought to be nearly always lethal...". I suppose that makes me feel better, that there was probably nothing I could do.

3) Being a pathologist, of course I wanted to find the proximate cause of death. I noted that there was some pooled hemorrhage of the CAM vessels - perhaps caused by the pipping? I'm not sure it was enough blood to cause death, though. I wonder why this position is so lethal...

3) It was a girl. (This upset me more than I expected - I wanted a girl from Lissa. I think I only got boys from her, though I will double check tomorrow when the chicks wake up.)

Also, in reading more about malpositions, the other eggs that I struggled with were Malposition 2: Head in small end of egg. "This position is commonly seen in eggs that have been incubated upside down and is also more prevalent in eggs that have been incubated horizontally compared to eggs incubated with their large ends uppermost. The position can occur in eggs that have been incubated the right way up (especially those eggs with a rounder shape), eggs which have been exposed to high temperatures in the setters or when the angle of turning is too small. The frequency of this malposition is heavily influenced by the percentage of eggs that are set upside down. Ideally, the frequency of this malposition should be less than 10 per cent of total malpositioned embryos."

Perhaps there are issues with the rolling-type egg turning that occurs in the R-com (though my round eggs may be part of the problem). I believe that I may use the R-com just as a hatcher from now on (realizing that I will have to use sponges, etc., to ensure humidity).

Photos (I labeled some of them):













While next time I incubate (especially Cream Legbars), I will listen to Ms. Sally re: higher temp and lower humidity, I believe that my issues were also related to egg shape and potentially the type of horizontal turning in the R-Com.

@Sally Sunshine

- Ant Farm

 

[lozerface79]

Here is a cat : nvm

 

[LocalYokel]

OK, eggtopsy is complete. Note that this is the only chick with problems that WASN'T from one of Jenny's eggs (it was Lissa's). Jenny has ocular Marek's disease and while she lays frequently/consistently and lays large blue eggs, her eggs are somewhat round-ish eggs that many would advise not setting. Also note that these eggs were incubated horizontally (see below for thoughts on R-Com egg turning). Photos below (I tried to do a spoiler, but couldn't figure out how to insert photos in that - sorry). But in summary:

1) Air cell development was actually not as bad as I thought, though still smaller than it should have been, and there was decent draw down. The problem was that the chick, pipped on the side opposite from the air cell. This makes me wonder if the air cells perhaps had developed more than I realized in the others as well, though they were still malpositioned - or perhaps I should have candled those eggs again later on day 18 to look for draw down (though that might not have changed anything). In the photos, you can see the air cell extending well below what I marked as visible on day 18, though draw down was still on the side where I had predicted pip.

2) This was what is referred to on thepoultrysite.com as Malposition 4 - Beak away from air cell. "The incidence of this position is five times greater in eggs incubated horizontally than large end up and is thought to be nearly always lethal...". I suppose that makes me feel better, that there was probably nothing I could do.

3) Being a pathologist, of course I wanted to find the proximate cause of death. I noted that there was some pooled hemorrhage of the CAM vessels - perhaps caused by the pipping? I'm not sure it was enough blood to cause death, though. I wonder why this position is so lethal...

3) It was a girl. (This upset me more than I expected - I wanted a girl from Lissa. I think I only got boys from her, though I will double check tomorrow when the chicks wake up.)

Also, in reading more about malpositions, the other eggs that I struggled with were Malposition 2: Head in small end of egg. "This position is commonly seen in eggs that have been incubated upside down and is also more prevalent in eggs that have been incubated horizontally compared to eggs incubated with their large ends uppermost. The position can occur in eggs that have been incubated the right way up (especially those eggs with a rounder shape), eggs which have been exposed to high temperatures in the setters or when the angle of turning is too small. The frequency of this malposition is heavily influenced by the percentage of eggs that are set upside down. Ideally, the frequency of this malposition should be less than 10 per cent of total malpositioned embryos."

Perhaps there are issues with the rolling-type egg turning that occurs in the R-com (though my round eggs may be part of the problem). I believe that I may use the R-com just as a hatcher from now on (realizing that I will have to use sponges, etc., to ensure humidity).

Photos (I labeled some of them):













While next time I incubate (especially Cream Legbars), I will listen to Ms. Sally re: higher temp and lower humidity, I believe that my issues were also related to egg shape and potentially the type of horizontal turning in the R-Com.

@Sally Sunshine

- Ant Farm

Wow.

I am always incubating upright now.

 

[LocalYokel]

Here is a cat :

Fail

May want to edit that before yer caponized

 

[daxigait]

Well... Wasn't that special. I was watching the last stuck chick, had about 30 minutes before I wanted to try helping again (had it on a timer), but I started to see some more liquid near the yolk side of the shell. I watched some more, as he got wetter, and when I started to see some little foaming in the liquid as he was trying to shove his way out, I decided time was up. I was glad I did. He had managed to tear his umbilical cord or major vessel and was bleeding deeper in the shell where I couldn't have seen it. There was a significant amount of blood in the bottom of the shell - hard to know how much it will affect him. His navel was open, and it looked like he had JUST finished internalizing the yolk. I got him out of the shell as quickly as I could (he was stuck and membrane was all over him, especially his face - once he got out, I realized his beak was under his wing, and the wing had gotten cemented against his face). I held pressure against the navel until the worst of the bleeding stopped, then dabbed it with betadine (which really stopped the bleeding well!). Then I just put him in a small bowl on a paper towel and let him rest int eh incubator and warm back up for a little bit. Later, I wiped all the goop and membranes off of him with a warm wet washcloth - had to do it twice. (Oh, and the air cell? Nearly nonexistent...) Here's a photo of him right out of the shell. Navel currently is closed, and not so bad looking (all things considered). I was concerned that he was developing an infection (which would be no surprise, given how long he was like that, in a dirty incubator). Upon examination (and smelling), I don't believe he is, though it may manifest more obviously later - I think the bubbles were from him squirming and air being worked into that fluid. He was trying to walk around and peep earlier - right now he's resting. Hard to know if that's normal rest/activity cycle or if he's fading. I moved the shell debris out of the incubator and put him and the other weak chick into clean baskets to rest and dry. If they do well, I'll move them into the brooder with everyone else in the morning. If not, I have the Brinsea Ecoglow up to temp (using a Mama Heating Pad set up for the other chicks), and will put them in a separate brooder together temporarily. I don't know if they will live. If they live, and are weak at all, I don't know if I will cull early/now. (All weak malpositioned chicks are males.) But I feel I did my part to give them a chance. And I learned a lot. @Sally Sunshine - So I can maybe learn from this for later hatches: Should I have waited longer and left the assist-hole smaller once I knew that there were blood vessels? Or is this just a situation in which there is no good choice? (Besides prevention, of course.) I was on my feet all day watching them (except a few naps to try to shake the remnants of that migraine) - and my plantar fasciitis is acting up so that it feels like iron spikes are being driven through my foot. Having a glass of wine and waiting for the pain meds to kick in before doing an eggtopsy on the DIS one. I will post photos. I'm exhausted - but before I go, for everyone who is in lockdown and hatching - GOOOOOOO CHICKEEEEEEEES!!!!!! - Ant Farm

way to go!

 

[LocalYokel]

Here is a cat : nvm

 

[lozerface79]

Fail

May want to edit that before yer caponized

This is why i remain single :/
I failed just like everything else i do e

 

[LocalYokel]

This is why i remain single

I failed just like everything else i do

you really should stop beating up on yourself.