INDIANA BYC'ers HERE!

[dogwoodlaine]

Opinions wanted:
With regards to my fil's current sick chicken issues, it started me thinking...
His coops and runs run down one side of his back yard. In the center of his yard is the leach field for the septic. The coops are probably 15 or 20 feet away from the edge of it. My bil and his clan lived with them for about a year and the last 6 months of them living there overloaded the system. There were very wet areas in the leach field-swampy even. They moved out and the septic thing has resolved itself, but now I wonder if that could travel into the coops/runs. There never appeared to be any run off into the chicken area. Can it just move through dry ground. Is it even a possibility in septic water?
Another thing is that the bil clan had a dog tied out back. He was apparently sick on and off and finally just curled up and died. They said he had gotten sick from swimming in a pond with blue green algae. I didn't know about the dog or I would have intervened (can't stand a mooch so I didn't visit). My mil and fil are on an incredibly tight budget (we pay for alot) so I've got alot of time and money tied into my inlaws hobbies. I just want them to be happy and them sitti g around not having a life is not happy. Anyway, I want to help him with this before they all get sick. I saw the suggestion for the fecal. I can do that.

 

[Indiana feather]

Hey fellow hoosier chicken enthusiasts I have a question for ya

. I read a nice article about DE on the site and it talked about the source and all the uses for DE and I was quite impressed and wondered if the use of DE in the deep litter method provides any parasite protection internally or do any of you use the food grade DE as a wormer and if so how do you do it. It just makes sense to me that if you were using it to dry the poo why not as a de-wormer also. Just wondered if it was a viable option in the care of chickens.

 

[Birdylady3]

Hey all. What's shaking?

 

[Leahs Mom]

I don't recommend the use of DE at all. For many reasons. There was an excellent article in Backyard Poultry magazine cautioning the use of DE but you can't read it on their site unless you're a subscriber or I would have linked it here. That article probably said best what my viewpoint on it is.

Inhalation by the birds is one issue. It can cause lung damage very quickly. Another is changing the natural makeup of the soil or deep litter which also can hurt the "beneficial" items in the litter or soil and making a place more hospitable to "bad" items to proliferate. Soil - and deep litter if done correctly - allows for beneficial microbs and other beneficial soil constituents to balance out the bad and be in control of the situation. Addition of DE can change that balance and cause a world of trouble.

Here is only one reference that says a little. I wish I could get access to the Backyard Poultry article as it is a really good overview, clearly written.

http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/05/diatomaceous-earth-de-benefitrisk.html


ETA: As always, this is just my opinion. Based on sound reasoning and information, I hope. But take it as opinion and research and draw your own conclusions.

 

[Indiana feather]

I don't recommend the use of DE at all. For many reasons. There was an excellent article in Backyard Poultry magazine cautioning the use of DE but you can't read it on their site unless you're a subscriber or I would have linked it here. That article probably said best what my viewpoint on it is.

Inhalation by the birds is one issue. It can cause lung damage very quickly. Another is changing the natural makeup of the soil or deep litter which also can hurt the "beneficial" items in the litter or soil and making a place more hospitable to "bad" items to proliferate. Soil - and deep litter if done correctly - allows for beneficial microbs and other beneficial soil constituents to balance out the bad and be in control of the situation. Addition of DE can change that balance and cause a world of trouble.

Here is only one reference that says a little. I wish I could get access to the Backyard Poultry article as it is a really good overview, clearly written.

http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/05/diatomaceous-earth-de-benefitrisk.html

I will have to look into that further then... the article i read even suggested it was safe for human consumption..lol although that sounds somewhat scary to think of perhaps. Thank you for your opinion ... thats why i asked because I'm new to this all and neede some input from people who are knee deep into raising chickens already

 

[PeacefulWalls]

I'm having some roos processed tomorrow. One is an orpington that is 1 1/2 years old. Is he still decent eating at this age? The others were from this spring's chicks so they're fine. Didn't know if I need to have the older roo bagged separately from the others or not. We do occasionally raw feed to our dogs as we have meat available, so he won't go to waste.

 

[Faraday40]

I don't think that its a genetic predisposition.

If it was a sour crop, some are more prone to yeast infection which can be brought on by using antibiotics very much like in humans. And, of course, if a bird has a weakened immune system for any reason (including antibiotic use) they aren't as able to fight off what they may be able to handle under better circumstances. Sometimes molds/yeasts in feed items can contribute as well.

Anyhow...all of that is to say that I wouldn't worry about genetic predisposition as much as looking at possible things that they can be getting that might cause an impact. If sour crop is suspected, or if you have given any antibiotics lately, probiotics can be used for the rest of the flock to hopefully restore gut flora.

For probiotics I recommend Avi-Culture II - the only avian probiotic on the market that is cultured on non-gmo substrate. ( Website is bad but the product is good... a little goes a long way and has a good shelf life if kept in fridge http://www.avi-culture-2.com/shop.html )

They can have some plain yogurt. (I know that folks are concerned about lactose in milk products but that is not an issue with yogurt as the LABs digest the lactose.)

Another thing that works GREAT for treating sour crop is to let them eat organic coconut oil in it's solid state. They LOVE the stuff and it is anti-fungal. I've known several folks that used the coconut oil and nothing else with sour crop and each bird recovered nicely. They withheld grain-based feed for a few days, gave coconut oil, and some animal-based protein. ACV should NEVER be used when you have sour crop and should be withheld until the bird is well if you're inclined to use ACV at all.

Thank you for putting my mind at ease. I read a lot & I've simply been lucky with no major health issues here. I certainly know who to ask when I do have an emergency.

As far as Superhero, I didn't see her that day, so I'll never know what it was. It's possible that it came on overnight or perhaps, since they're birds, she hid her symptoms too well for the owners to notice.

 

[PeacefulWalls]

In case anyone is interested I'm using Martin's Chicken Butchering southwest of Goshen. She told me on the phone the roos would be $2.25 each to process & the ducks I'm taking would be $6 each (only have 2 or 3 of those). I need some of you chicken processing people to come up here sometime!!

 

[Leahs Mom]

In case anyone is interested I'm using Martin's Chicken Butchering southwest of Goshen. She told me on the phone the roos would be $2.25 each to process & the ducks I'm taking would be $6 each (only have 2 or 3 of those). I need some of you chicken processing people to come up here sometime!!

I've heard that Martins is good. I also have a private source for a good price that comes highly recommend in our area. The one thing I am concerned with if I take any of my animals for processing is that I get back the animal I brought in. Some butchers have the philosophy that if 30 birds come in, and 2 of them are yours, you'll get 2 back....they just may not be yours. So I always ask before going somewhere to be sure that I get my own meat back. I feed my animals specially and that's the meat I want!!!!

I think your older guy would be a "stewing" bird rather than a roaster..... Anyone else...would I be right there? @SallyinIndiana probably knows....

 

[SallyinIndiana]

Quote: The oldest rooster we have eaten was around 18-20 months old. I really just don't keep birds around for too long, yet. Pets are rehomed and others are eaten as soon as they are large enough. I let processed chickens rest (chilled) for at least 3 days but not more than 5. For those roosters that are not 9 week old giant meat birds, I prefer to roast or crockpot them. I'm sure the 6-9 month old roosters from the heritage breeds would make some nice frying and grilling meat but with the dark meat making up a higher share of the meat than a store bought chicken. Some like to Brine as well for the older chickens during the resting period.
My family enjoys the roasted chicken and pulled BBQ chicken so for now I have not been frying or grilling our chickens no matter the age.
Stonykill posted a recipe somewhere for a chicken chowder of sorts that would work great for an older bird. I have made it a couple of times. It reads a lot like a chicken soup recipe but it comes out so much thicker. Great time of the year for soups and chili meals too.

Another hint, is to mark which birds are the older ones before putting them in the freezer. So the freezer bag might read 2014 March Roo 18M.
This is very useful in the spring butchering as many of the backup breeder roosters get processed in the spring here but it is not until fall that I would be making soups.