INDIANA BYC'ers HERE!

[kittydoc]

The USDA has FINALLY updated its avian influenza page to include more specific information about the current epidemic we are experiencing, which is the worst in three decades. Minnesota has declared a state of emergency it is so bad there (mostly with turkeys).

Here is the updated USDA link, which is indeed better than the old one: http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome?contentid=avian_influenza.html

Also, I finally found information about proposed AI vaccine development and use. The downside is that right now, there is no way to tell a vaccinated bird from a sick bird, so it would affect poultry exports. However, there is proposed use in limited cases, probably where it's really bad like in Minnesota to help stop the disease from spreading. It could take months to a year or more before any such vaccine would be available.

Here's a link to that article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/22/us-health-birdflu-usa-vaccine-idUSKBN0ND0AI20150422

 

[kittydoc]

I've been taking a free, non-credit poultry class through Coursera.org, and there was an interesting academic article posted about how to evaluate the welfare of laying hens in a variety of environments. It uses UK standards for welfare plus they consulted with poultry experts in New Zealand to develop this scale of sort of "OK," "better," and "best" in an attempt to give the hens not just a "life worth living," but a "good life." I think there are things all of us can learn and ponder from the standards they established in this article. We probably can't all do everything, but there are things I hadn't even really thought about doing for my flock that I will now.

Here's the link to the article: https://d396qusza40orc.cloudfront.net/chickens/Edgar et al 2013 A good life for hens Animals.pdf

 

[Leahs Mom]

Here are some questions I have about the flocks that have gotten AI:

Large Confined Flocks:
It appears that most of the flocks that have AI have been confined large flocks. Most flocks that are raised in a "factory farm" setting are given antibiotics routinely in addition to being in crowded, unhealthy housing situations.

So the questions are:
-Were the affected flocks given antibiotics and/or anti-virals routinely as part of their management in these confined flocks? (This is important to know on many levels. Routine use of antibiotics can make them more susceptible to diseases by weakening the immune system, [among other things} unfortunately.) I wish that info was public.

-What was the stocking rate to sf of these facilities? I wish that info was public.

And...an extremely important question...
-Is this particular strain of AI an anti-biotic/anti-viral resistant strain that originated in the hatcheries and/or "factory farms"? I wish they'd make that info public...


"BACKYARD FLOCKS"
From what I understand, at least one of the home flocks that got AI had a large number of birds compared to many home flocks.

-Was the home flock a confined flock that was over-crowded for the number of birds? Was the flock kept indoors or outdoors? I wish they'd make that information public.

-If this flock(s) was allowed outdoors, what was the condition of the ground it was allowed to occupy?

-Is it on on ground with healthy green grass and other plants...or in forest range?

-If there are outdoor pens, do they have healthy deep litter that is alive with bugs and worms for them to scratch through -or- Is the ground they're on impacted/denuded of vegetation that's become an unhealthy breeding ground for disease? I wish they'd make that info. public.


I probably have more questions, but getting the answer to these things would be extremely helpful.

Our "animal husbandry" or "flock management" is very important for the PREVENTION of diseases. The way we house, feed, the condition of the ground they're on are all very important factors in raising healthy flocks that have strong immune systems.

My focus when I'm raising any animal is on PREVENTION of disease by trying to emulate what they'd have in nature to the best of my ability. Most of these things are simple and work even in backyard flocks where the property is pretty small. Deep litter in outdoor pens is one example that can be accomplished at no extra cost but has a huge health benefit.

Sigh... How do we get the answer to those questions?

 

[Leahs Mom]

PS:
I should have included "anti-virals" in what I was asking. There are also anti-viral resistant stains of virus.

 

[kittydoc]

Here are some questions I have about the flocks that have gotten AI:

Large Confined Flocks:
It appears that most of the flocks that have AI have been confined large flocks. Most flocks that are raised in a "factory farm" setting are given antibiotics routinely in addition to being in crowded, unhealthy housing situations.

So the questions are:
-Were the affected flocks given antibiotics and/or anti-virals routinely as part of their management in these confined flocks? (This is important to know on many levels. Routine use of antibiotics can make them more susceptible to diseases by weakening the immune system, [among other things} unfortunately.) I wish that info was public.

-What was the stocking rate to sf of these facilities? I wish that info was public.

And...an extremely important question...
-Is this particular strain of AI an anti-biotic/anti-viral resistant strain that originated in the hatcheries and/or "factory farms"? I wish they'd make that info public...


"BACKYARD FLOCKS"
From what I understand, at least one of the home flocks that got AI had a large number of birds compared to many home flocks.

-Was the home flock a confined flock that was over-crowded for the number of birds? Was the flock kept indoors or outdoors? I wish they'd make that information public.

-If this flock(s) was allowed outdoors, what was the condition of the ground it was allowed to occupy?

-Is it on on ground with healthy green grass and other plants...or in forest range?

-If there are outdoor pens, do they have healthy deep litter that is alive with bugs and worms for them to scratch through -or- Is the ground they're on impacted/denuded of vegetation that's become an unhealthy breeding ground for disease? I wish they'd make that info. public.


I probably have more questions, but getting the answer to these things would be extremely helpful.

Our "animal husbandry" or "flock management" is very important for the PREVENTION of diseases. The way we house, feed, the condition of the ground they're on are all very important factors in raising healthy flocks that have strong immune systems.

My focus when I'm raising any animal is on PREVENTION of disease by trying to emulate what they'd have in nature to the best of my ability. Most of these things are simple and work even in backyard flocks where the property is pretty small. Deep litter in outdoor pens is one example that can be accomplished at no extra cost but has a huge health benefit.

Sigh... How do we get the answer to those questions?

FIRST, antibiotics treat bacterial diseases, NOT viruses. So no amount (or absence) of antibiotics has ANYTHING to do whatsoever with susceptibility to any virus, including AI. People make this mistake all the time. There are NO antiviral drugs used in poultry. None. So there is no drug any poultry can receive which would leave to increased viral susceptibility, nor is there any antiviral drug used to attempt to treat it. Disinfection will kill the virus on contaminated surfaces, but that's only useful if and when an affected farm is cleared to repopulate.

Of course large, crowded commercial facilities are going to be more severely affected once AI gets started, in terms of the absolute number of birds that die and certainly in terms of the number of birds euthanized.

Turkeys are 100 times more susceptible to the H5N2 virus strain (which is not the only bad one this year, but it's the worst of the two) than chickens. That said, the worst single "disaster" has been 5.3 million chickens that were destroyed in Iowa when birds on that farm developed AI.

If you look at the map link that @flyladyrocks recently posted, it's easy to see that the biggest "focus" of AI is Minnesota and nearby areas of adjacent states--so far.

Another thing you did not mention, but others have incorrectly stated, is that AI is airborne. It is not. While particles of infected goose or duck poop might be transmitted by wind, the microscopic virus particles are not transmitted that way. I know that's a little hard to wrap one's head around, but the disease basically requires direct contact with infected duck or goose POOP as far as what they know now. I've heard some speculation from the scientific community that this is actually the result of thawing last fall's wild waterfowl poop as an explanation for why it is more prevalent up north than down south. The virus does NOT replicate in soil. It replicates inside the birds and their eggs only.

I know we sometimes differ, and you prefer "all natural" everything while I am a conventionally trained veterinarian, but avian influenza is an "all natural" disease that, like its human counterparts, is more deadly some years than others. In 1918, tens of millions of people died worldwide from an influenza pandemic. The H5N2 avian influenza virus is a new combination of Asian and North American strains to which birds have no natural immunity. And yes, there are wild waterfowl that fly over North America and across Alaska and the Bering Sea into Asia.

One last thing--this virus does NOT make wild waterfowl sick in any appreciable way. That's how they are carrying it all over creation, because they aren't sick or dying from it.

PREVENTION of AI requires that we don't let our birds be natural. Free-ranging over wide spaces that can't be covered with bird netting is the most dangerous thing to do in terms of potential exposure. It's unfortunate, but true. The closer contact one's flock has to waterfowl, the greater the risk. My chickenyard is fenced AND netted (since a hawk strike last year). Most of my friends are still free-ranging their flocks, but I worry for them. If it doesn't come close to you, it won't be a problem, but once it's here, it will be hell to stop it. In Minnesota, they are even asking that postal employees, package delivery services, etc., not enter the property, and they are asking for exemptions to reduce the number of outsiders (even USDA inspectors) so as few people as possible can trot this horrible disease from one farm to another. Big operations are requiring showers before AND after shifts, and not hiring any temporary or new employees. If any of you are still letting visitors onto your properties, I'd sure stop that in a hurry, because it's only a matter of time before AI is reported in IL or MI, then here.

I apologize to LeahsMom for any offense, but I really want people to understand what is happening, and misinformation (even in the way certain questions are worded) doesn't help anyone. I've jumped on other people on other threads I'm subscribed to for the same thing, so please don't take it personally. I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is not something to tiptoe around.

 

[raisinemright]

Updated pics of my my barnyard (and kabs) Easter Day hatch. Some true Cochins and silkies from kab also.

The three Cochins!

A couple of I don't know what mix chicks.

This is 1 of 3 yellow chicks I pretty sure came from my roo Cricket and one of my buff Orpingtons. I really like the color of these!

And here is 1 of a bunch of EE's idk who's flock they came from. not green legs though?!

Here are the three silkies (had four lost one chick) but these look really nice!

 

[Leahs Mom]

@kittydoc
No offense at all. I think that all sides need to be considered. Those are just questions I have.



I had another post that still pertains:
Quote:
I'll have to see if I can get hold of the research studies on that as, if they are correct, it would still affect the immune system's ability to deal with virus.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Also... @kittydoc

What kind of netting are you using? Could you post a photo or link to what you're using?

 

[kittydoc]

I've read some interesting research in the last year regarding how bacteria and virus are not as separate as once thought and that they can kind of "morph" between bacteria and virus depending on the conditions. I'll have to see if I can find those studies/articles and post a link. It was pretty interesting, and the idea was that they were able to adapt to the environment. If the immune system in the gut was intact, it was also able to rise to the occasion and make the environment inhospitable. It was quite fascinating.

Bacteria do not "morph" into viruses, or vice versa. Ever. Some fungi "morph" between spores and other states which look very different--perhaps that's what the article referred to. If it really said bacteria and viruses can switch back and forth depending on the environment, then the article is quite simply untrue. Viruses are very simple, almost non-living structures, that are composed of RNA or DNA plus just a few key proteins, and they cannot reproduce without infecting a higher and more complete life form, such as bacteria, plants, or animals, and using the host's cells to reproduce/replicate. Bacteria are single-celled but complete life forms capable of reproduction without the assistance of any "host" organism, and they have a greater variety of subcellular organelles, proteins, and membranes than any virus. Prions, like the thing that causes BSE (mad cow disease) are even less "living" than viruses, even though they are infectious and cause serious diseases. Science still debates whether to call prions alive or not. Prions don't change into viruses (or vice versa), either. A bacterium is a bacterium, a virus is a virus, a chicken is a chicken, and a human is a human, all the time.

 

[kittydoc]

Also... @kittydoc

What kind of netting are you using? Could you post a photo or link to what you're using?

Absolutely! We use 2" netting, but there is 1" also available at a substantially higher cost. I figured that 2" would do just fine, and it did. The hawk that killed one of our BO's last year tried to swoop down and take another one after the netting went up. It detected the netting at the last minute and made a clumsy aborted effort that resulted in it hitting the ground just outside the fenced/netted area (DH saw it happen). It stuck around for another 2 weeks, then left. Haven't seen one since. I like raptors, and I know they have to eat, but really don't want them to eat my chickens. Or anyone's chickens! Someone on the thread recommended a similar product a while back, which led me to what we bought.

Anyway, I found the netting at Amazon.com in 50' x 50' and 100' x 50' rolls, depending on the manufacturer. I believe we purchased this one, and it's held up well. We're about to restretch it a little (since we did some construction inside the chicken village anyway).

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Choice-P...id=1429971351&sr=8-1&keywords=bird+netting+2"