Inflamed Skin--any ideas?

[jajeanpierre]

I have two frazzle (double copy for the frizzle gene) bantam Cochins that have some sort of skin problem. They were from a big commercial hatchery, and of the 26 day-old chicks that came, only the frizzle (three frazzle, one frizzle) had this skin issue, pictures below.

They've had this skin inflammation from very early on but I didn't notice it. Two of the four have died, one from a dog attack and one I believe from some sort of blocked crop I didn't find early enough.

The skin does not seem to bother either bird at all. The pullet is laying frequently. There doesn't seem to be any debris or scabbing that would suggest parasites. The inflammation is greatest where the skin is exposed, a strip down the side of the leg, the keel and the underside of the tail, the oil gland and vent area. It is not on their head, neck, back (other than the tail) wings or under the wings. Because they are frazzles, they have very, very poor feathers so there is a lot of skin exposed. They have not been sunburned.

I thought it might be a sensitivity to pine shavings, so I've switched them to hay. I have washed them a couple of times in Adams flee shampoo, and they improved a bit. I've dusted, basically packed their feathers, in DE. Nothing has solved the problem. Any ideas? I'm tempted to want to try antibiotics or even an anti fungal, but am no sure I want to invest in the vet bill. I'm tempted to take them to an avian vet for skin scrapings, but personally think many avian vets' focus is to make as much money as possible, not supply good veterinary medicine to birds.




This second picture below is of the underside of the tail. I had just bathed him. The bird is on his belly with the tail pulled up and forward, pointing to the upper left. The vent is to the bottom right. The skin has a leathery quality to it from chronic irritation.





Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Eggcessive]

I would examine them for mites and signs of leg mites. The red poultry mite only comes out at night feeding on the chicken, then disappearing back into the woodwork during the daytime. I don't have much faith in DE, so I would use Sevin dust (carbaryl) 5 % or permethrin. If you find mites, the whole coop must be cleaned along with nest boxes and dusting repeated in 7 days (and I would repeat again.) For leg mites the leg has to be treated with oil to soften the scales and smother the mites. I don't see that in your pictures. I would also look at it being some sort of skin condition. Here is some info on mites: http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8162.pdf

 

[jajeanpierre]

I would examine them for mites and signs of leg mites. The red poultry mite only comes out at night feeding on the chicken, then disappearing back into the woodwork during the daytime. I don't have much faith in DE, so I would use Sevin dust (carbaryl) 5 % or permethrin. If you find mites, the whole coop must be cleaned along with nest boxes and dusting repeated in 7 days (and I would repeat again.) For leg mites the leg has to be treated with oil to soften the scales and smother the mites. I don't see that in your pictures. I would also look at it being some sort of skin condition. Here is some info on mites: http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8162.pdf

They don't seem to have any signs of mites. I would expect debris, scabs, something to indicate points of inflammation where they have been bitten. There is no debris, just inflamed skin. I am leaning towards a fungal or bacterial infection. I've also heard that frazzles (double copy of frizzle gene) have skin problems, but I can't find the science to back that up, only hearsay.

 

[dawg53]

Refer to post #3 and post #5 in this link:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/832711/red-belly-and-legs#post_12196265

 

[jajeanpierre]

Refer to post #3 and post #5 in this link:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/832711/red-belly-and-legs#post_12196265

Post #3 was pictures of my birds taken from another forum. I'm not a big fan of adding vitamins and electrolytes willy nilly to a diet. There are very few regulations governing human supplements and when tested, human supplements aren't what they said they were, so I would think there will be even less quality control of poultry supplements. The birds have a good diet and free range. I've "heard" of skin problems in frazzles (double copy gene for frizzle), but haven't heard it from anyone with personal experience with skin problems with frazzles.

 

[dawg53]

Quote: You posted looking for ideas, I responded. The reason I recommended Avian Super Pack is because dermatitis can be caused by a lack of biotin. The super pack contains biotin that could possibly treat your birds. However the more I look at the pics...looks like gout. If you dont want ideas, dont post.

 

[nfitzgeraldRN]

Okay, this pics look similar to my frizzle that appears to be red and inflammed. Please take a look at my pictures and let me know if anyone has seen this and has ideas. We just gave him a warm bath and lathered bacitracin on his red spots. He is a 9 month old bantam cochin frizzle, has always had the spot that appears to be an ingrown feather on his tail, but within the last few days the reddness has progressed. We gave him a bath to see if we could locate the problem...but all we found is more red spots. I didnt see any lice but I'm no pro there... help...hes my sweet boy and I want to see if I can get him looking better. He doesnt appear to be feeling sick. Seems to be eating and drinking normally. Thanks for any and all your help.

 

[Beekissed]

That little bump is likely his oil gland. As for the redness on these birds, I'd lean towards some kind of parasite, or nutritional deficiency causing eczema. If dusting with permethrin doesn't cut it, I'd try what Dawg suggested if wanting to keep the birds~he knows his birds. It's a shame to let them live that way if it cannot be cleared up...looks uncomfortable.

Bathing them will only make it worse..the birds need the oil on their skin and feathers to remain healthy and bathing dries out the skin.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Okay, this pics look similar to my frizzle that appears to be red and inflammed. Please take a look at my pictures and let me know if anyone has seen this and has ideas. We just gave him a warm bath and lathered bacitracin on his red spots. He is a 9 month old bantam cochin frizzle, has always had the spot that appears to be an ingrown feather on his tail, but within the last few days the reddness has progressed. We gave him a bath to see if we could locate the problem...but all we found is more red spots. I didnt see any lice but I'm no pro there... help...hes my sweet boy and I want to see if I can get him looking better. He doesnt appear to be feeling sick. Seems to be eating and drinking normally. Thanks for any and all your help.

This looks very much what I deal with with my double copy frizzle. Where did you get this bird?

The organ that looks like a pimple on the tail is the oil gland.

Can you post a picture of him with his feathers dry?

From what I see, he looks like he might carry two frizzle genes. One frizzle gene gives the beautiful frizzles, with broad normal feathers that curve the wrong way. Two frizzle genes give a bird whose feathers are thin and brittle and all kinds of other problems. Do his feathers break easily or fall out after he has been handled? My double frizzles also have the odd ingrown feather.

I try to cope with my birds delicate skin. It has never seemed to bother them. I do believe the skin issue (in my birds) is related to the double copy of the frizzle gene and is somehow making the skin more fragile and vulnerable to contact dermatitis. The most improvement I got was taking them off pine shavings and putting them on soft meadow hay. My double-copy frizzle (some call them frazzles) pullet's skin has completely cleared up. Her feathers have all broken off, so she is basically naked except for a few feathers on her wings and some curly wire on her neck. She is my kitchen chicken at the moment. The double copy frizzle cockerel is in a pen in my garage with a heat lamp since he can't cope with cold and his skin is the best its ever been.

I found no evidence of parasites on any of my birds. I debated having skin biopsies done to find out exactly what was going on. The vet tech and I did discuss just randomly applying an antibiotic ointment and antifungals.

I would love to see a picture of your bird dry and know where he came from.