Insulation and the coop!

[tracecom]

I am not an expert on chickens and chicken coops.

Night before last, the temperature dropped to 5 F. My coop is draft free and well ventilated, but it is not insulated and not heated, and I am sure that the temperature inside the coop got close to 5 F. I was concerned about the effect it would have on my 6 month old chickens.

Thursday morning, they were fine, and seemed as happy as could be. They spent most of the day in the run, cheerfully scratching and making their "happy sounds." The only problem was that the last gallon of water in their plastic bucket was frozen solid.

So, I am completely satisfied that the coop does not need any heat for the comfort of the chickens, and I have no plans to insulate the coop or to add any heat.

However, I am equally satisfied that electricity in the coop is not the villain that causes coop fires any more than electricity is to blame for house fires that are abundant this time of year. My coop is wired, and it is safe! Short of a lightning strike, I have no fears about it burning.

...oh yeah, I built a heater for the water bucket, and plugged it into the 120VAC outlet, and my coop is still safe.

You too, can have a safe, electrified coop. The key is to either know how to do it safely, or hire someone who does.

ETA: If my chicks lived in an area where the temperature stayed at or near 5 F for long periods of time, I might add a little heat to the coop.

 

[RonP]

We have a 4'x4' insulated coop with 4 chickens. I would would say that the inside temperature and the humidity level of the coop are practically the same as the outside ambiance condition in the winter. That's because the coop is very well ventilated, we control the ventilation by opening or lowering the windows accordingly. The advantage with an insulated coop is that the floor and the walls are not frigid, especially for the chicken on the ends of the roost that are next to the walls at night. The eggs are also less likely to be frozen because of the insulated nest box.

For young chicks, they do need heat, but once they grew feather, they really can stay warm in very cold weather as long as the air is dry and calm. I checked my girls using an infrared thermometer at nights because I do get worried like all other chicken parents. The chickens fluffed up like a ball and maintain a normal body temperature, they are fine.

In turns of using artificial heat source, if there is a safe way to keep the water from freezing, that's my biggest concern besides keeping the chickens warm. Inside the coop with so much flame-able materials (feather, bedding, dust), it is best to keep the heat source out of there, but probably should have a backup plan for extreme conditions. Even though we have a household of engineers here, fully knowledgeable in how to properly wire up heat sources, we believe that chickens can protect themselves in the cold, but they can't protect themselves from fire.

I currently use a modified version of the "cookie tin heater" for my flocks water needs.

I have not found a way to do it that I feel is more efficient nor more safe.

I also heat my nesting boxes to help stop eggs from freezing, also safely and efficient.

The basic principles can be found in my signature.

 

[Heme]

What I saw at some Noncommercial Chicken farms/coops.
Managed operations were less than optimal. Chickens peck at everything that surrounds them, and that includes the insulation on electrical wires. Cold insulation is brittle and can be pecked at, broken and exposing energized wires. Naturally any short can cause a fire if the surrounding flammables are ignited. DIY projects need to be done safely to avoid a serious problem. As for Chickens needing artificial heat, a lot depends on area, climate conditions, wind factor, coop design, and age of flock.

 

[blucoondawg]

What I saw at some Noncommercial Chicken farms/coops. 
Managed operations were less than optimal. Chickens peck at everything that surrounds them, and that includes the insulation on electrical wires. Cold insulation is brittle and can be pecked at, broken and exposing energized wires. Naturally any short can cause a fire if the surrounding flammables are ignited. DIY projects need to be done safely to avoid a serious problem. As for Chickens needing artificial heat, a lot depends on area, climate conditions, wind factor, coop design, and age of flock. 

my chickens have never pecked and damaged wiring, if that were a problem shielded cable or conduit could be used but you will still have cords for your heat pads and water heaters, and whatever else that are what they are. Your point is the same as what I have been saying all along, if you do it take care to do it right and odds are very good you won't have an issue.
As for reasons to heat a coop, people always preach no heat and cold hearty breeds, those people need to realize that not everyone who lives up north want to limit themselves to easter eggers, Brahma's, etc. I for one have a very mixed flock of pea comb, single comb and rose comb birds, this is my second winter in an unheated, uninsulated coop and I will not be going through another winter this way. No matter how much ventilation we have, and we do have plenty, I still experience frostbite on roosters as well as a couple of hens with very large combs, not overly severe but it's bad enough, the worse is the roosters wattles which are impossible to keep dry since they have to drink. It is impossible to eliminate all moisture from the air with any amount of ventilation since air has moisture in it everywhere with the exception of desert conditions and in these severe cold extremes frostbite happens on exposed skin no matter what, the only way to guarantee not to have frostbite is to not have the cold temps. If a humans skin can get frostbite just being outdoors in this weather then so can chickens in what is essentially an open air coop.

 

[tracecom]

Cold insulation is brittle and can be pecked at, broken and exposing energized wires.

Insulation on modern wire (e.g., Romex) is not brittle and I do not believe that a chicken will peck it and break it. Rats and squirrels may chew through it over time, but chickens peck through it? They would have to penetrate a thick external sheath, a paper layer, and at least one more internal layer of insulation. I say, "no."

 

[blucoondawg]

Exacty, and you are speaking of regular romex made for use indoors in wood frame structures like in your home, if you use UF romex (the gray stuff) which is rated for outdoor use and burial in the ground, you can hardly get through that stuff with a utility knife let alone peck it though by a chicken.

 

[Heme]

Very good reply. I did not consider Frost Bite until you mentioned it. I know water must be available for the good health and well-being of the girls and that is why I had the heat lamp near the water fount. Unfortunately when it got to zero a day ago, the water froze just the same. Oh Well...so goes my theory.

 

[Heme]

Right....as per what I saw in some coops were plain zip cord (lamp wire) or even thin coated speaker wire? Just for safety concerns, your method as mentioned is the way to go.

 

[RonP]

In a well ventilated coop, humidity should be near equal inside and out.

Many, even on this list, currently use a Woods-style house.

A design that has been successfully used for over a hundred years.

This design is VERY well ventilated, the entire front is open!

Ask these users if they have frostbite issues, and what temperature conditions their flock has been exposed to.

I personally have a well ventilated draft free coop, never a hint of frostbite on the largest of single combs and wattles.

They also have not seen temperatures below -9F ever, so my experience is somewhat limited.

 

[Blooie]

Like I have mentioned in another thread there is a right and wrong way to use a heat lamp, most of these fires involve the clamp on work light type fixture which either are not secured so they fall or they're faulty and melt or short out our they're too close to combustibles. Hard wired lighting with ceramic light fixtures and properly sized wire is a far safer alternative. I don't feel heat is overly necessary unless there are extended periods of major sub zero temperatures but it does certainly improve laying and keeps laid eggs from freezing and breaking.

One other cause of coop fires that I never see mentioned is the dust. Yep, good old dust. It accumulates everywhere, especially when the coop is more closed up in the winter and the chickens are spending more time in there. That dust is insidious - it gets everywhere, including on the prongs of the electrical plugs that might not be pushed all the way in. Haven't we all been guilty of having the prongs pushed most of the way in, or having prongs that go in a little cocked to one side? Imagine dust and dander getting into that tiny gap, or filtering into the outlet itself. That dust and just a little humidity can cause arcing across. And that dust accumulates on the surface of the bulbs as well. Many of us dust things off during the summer when we spend more time out there, but how many of us want to stand in the coop dusting things off when it's already getting dark at 4:30 and it's 20 below?

I have a light in my coop that is very seldom used. It's hard wired in like the rest of the electrical system out there is. It's there for my convenience if I have to go out in the early darkness and do something out there. My husband is an electrician. He's no dummy, either - he was the electrical engineer on board both an aircraft carrier and the Battleship USS Wisconsin, and he assisted in writing the Navy's electrical tech manual for the IC/EM courses. We went out a couple of weeks ago to check on Scout, our chick who had frostbitten feet, and I flipped the light on. A few minutes later there was the smell of something burning. Ken looked up and said, "Get that light turned off ASAP!" Like a dummy I had to look first and flip second. The top of the light bulb was covered in dust, chicken dander, and probably feathers or down, and just before the light went out we could see a little, almost invisible wisp of smoke coming from the top of the bulb. He whipped out the little mag flashlight he always carries (with his ever present Leatherman as well!) out of it's holster on his belt and made sure that there was nothing really seriously wrong aside from scorching dust. Only when he was sure did we finish what we were doing and go back inside.

That could have caused a real problem if a bit of smoldering feather had drifted down into the straw and litter covered floor. A heat lamp is out there to provide heat. It won't keep the coop at the same temperature as your living room, but that bulb gets hot, hot, hot. And dusty. Yikes! Now I know that a whole lot of things have to go wrong for a fire to start from a bit of dust on a light bulb. I'm not one to spend a lot of time with couldda, wouldda, shoulda. And I don't go looking for trouble where there likely isn't any. But I'm darned if I'm going to be the tester for the theory that the dust and feathers are combustible and the bulb is a heat source.

None of us are as diligent about small housekeeping projects out there in sub-zero temps. Accidents are a series of things that have to happen during an event, and I personally believe that a heat lamp doesn't have to come tumbling down onto the floor and sit there for a time in order for there to be a bad one.

And by the way, it was JackE who gave me advice on winterizing my coop, and I argued with him vehemently about it. Um, he was right. We live in Northern Wyoming. Last year our last snow flurries of the year came on June 6th. My coop isn't insulated or heated, and my birds are just fine. Got 8 eggs out of 10 chickens today, and they are active, healthy, and heading outside for some exercise the minute the sun comes up - and on some wintery days even when the sun doesn't come out all day. Thanks for that dose of common sense, JackE! Not often I'm happy to admit publicly that I was wrong, but I was wrong!