Integrating 2 small flocks of different sizes

[hingedtotherobot]

I have 6, 12 week old, girls who are all a standard breed size (wyandotte, orpington, naked neck, austrolop...sp?). They have been ruling my small backyard in SE Florida for the past 6 weeks. I also have 4, 8 week old, silkie bantams (1 is a Roo). These 4 are kept in a separate make shift coop (cat carrier) with a make shift run (extra large dog crate) attached. Both set ups are right next to each other in the yard. The silks have only ever been let free if the bigs are locked in their run. For the past couple days I've been letting the silkies range about with the big girls. For the most part they rather ignore each other but at some point the big girls will gang up and corner and chase the silks. I swear they might die of heart attack! The poor fluffy 4 panic FIERCELY. I have tons of hiding spots for them and that seems to help. But im wondering if this is normal or if I'm attempting the next step of integration too soon? There is a significant size difference in them and their demeanor is worlds apart. Should I be breaking these scuffs up and intervening or let them figure it out? My goal is to allow them all to coop and range together and be able to leave them out for short stunts of time safely.

 

[rosemarythyme]

If the scuffles are mild enough that there's no injury, and the SIlkies know to try and run for cover when the bigger birds come after them, you're probably ok to start leaving them out for progressively longer periods of time. Best to not interfere in pecking order unless a bird is in danger of injury or not being allowed to eat or drink at all.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hi, welcome to the forum, glad you joined.

12 week old standard breed size... 8 week old bantams (1 is a Roo).... For the most part they rather ignore each other but at some point the big girls will gang up and corner and chase the silks. ... The poor fluffy 4 panic FIERCELY.... im wondering if this is normal or if I'm attempting the next step of integration too soon?

I've tried to highlight what I think is significant, thanks for the information and the photos.

In my flock it is pretty normal for the younger to avoid the older. It's not a factor of size but of maturity. I often have some adults and three different groups of younger birds of different ages. Sometimes they mingle quite well but it's normal for each younger group to avoid any that are older. The more mature rank higher in the pecking order and will often enforce those pecking order rights on any less mature chicken that invades their personal space. They don't all always do that but it's pretty normal to see different groups spread out during the day and sleeping separately at night. Since they sometimes get pecked if they invade that personal space it usually doesn't take long for the younger to learn to avoid the older.

One way chickens have learned to live together in a flock is that, when there is conflict, the weaker runs away and avoids. That's why having room is so important during integration especially. If the weaker doesn't run away the other doesn't know it won the skirmish so it keeps attacking. That's why your young ones are panicking, they are in danger. When they get trapped in a corner or against a wall or fence the younger will often lay down and try to protect their head. The older will usually try to peck the head, that's where they can kill most easily. If you see something like that happening you need to stop it immediately.

How long have they been across wire from each other? There is no magic number for that but a little longer might be a good move. I can't tell how big your back yard really is or how cluttered the rest of it is. You can improve the quality of what room you have by adding things hey can hide under, behind, or over. Something that breaks the line of sight. It can help to have separate feeding and watering stations well spread out and behind things the others can't see.

Is there a specific place where these attacks take place? There might be enough size difference you could set something up there where the smaller ones can get through but the older ones can't. Sort of a safe haven or escape route. Maybe a piece of plywood leaning against a fence, some wire nesh with the right sized holes, or something raised off the ground just enough.

Are they going after just one chick or is one of the older a ring leader in attacking? Sometimes one is the leader, if you can identify one specific bully you might be able to isolate that one for a while. That's a common way to deal with this behavior when you can identify one. Often it is the lowest in the pecking order of the older group.

I have seen where one chicken just did not like another specific chicken. I can't explain that other than a clash or personalities. Are they going after your cockerel specifically? Sometimes older girls will beat up on a cockerel, as if they know he will one day be the flock leader but they want to keep him down as long as they can. Yours should be too young for that right now but sometimes they can surprise you with how old they act. It's something that might happen in your future but it certainly doesn't always happen.

I know this is long and hate to do this to you on your first post. I'm not sure exactly what is going on, it could be several different things. Hopefully you can get some ideas out of this to at least know what to watch for. Housing them across wire for a while longer probably would be a decent start.

Good luck!

 

[rosemarythyme]

Thank you for the thoughtful response! I have recently noticed a pattern of negative behavior that seems to be triggered by times when I'm walking in there yard. Perhaps they think im bringing food. The bigger girls seem to seek out the silkies when I'm in sight.

If you were normally bringing treats whenever you went out, then it's a possibility that the big girls are "acting up" because they want to make sure they get the lion's share of the food. Treats, and you as the bringer of treats, is a resource worth guarding.

Silkies also seem to have a different personality. They aren't as brazen as my other breeds and they tend to be overly cautious. Perhaps it's a combination of size, maturity and demeanor.

Silkies generally are more docile, plus they may have a harder time seeing due to their puff of feathers on the head.

 

[hingedtotherobot]

Hi, welcome to the forum, glad you joined.


I've tried to highlight what I think is significant, thanks for the information and the photos.

In my flock it is pretty normal for the younger to avoid the older. It's not a factor of size but of maturity. I often have some adults and three different groups of younger birds of different ages. Sometimes they mingle quite well but it's normal for each younger group to avoid any that are older. The more mature rank higher in the pecking order and will often enforce those pecking order rights on any less mature chicken that invades their personal space. They don't all always do that but it's pretty normal to see different groups spread out during the day and sleeping separately at night. Since they sometimes get pecked if they invade that personal space it usually doesn't take long for the younger to learn to avoid the older.

One way chickens have learned to live together in a flock is that, when there is conflict, the weaker runs away and avoids. That's why having room is so important during integration especially. If the weaker doesn't run away the other doesn't know it won the skirmish so it keeps attacking. That's why your young ones are panicking, they are in danger. When they get trapped in a corner or against a wall or fence the younger will often lay down and try to protect their head. The older will usually try to peck the head, that's where they can kill most easily. If you see something like that happening you need to stop it immediately.

How long have they been across wire from each other? There is no magic number for that but a little longer might be a good move. I can't tell how big your back yard really is or how cluttered the rest of it is. You can improve the quality of what room you have by adding things hey can hide under, behind, or over. Something that breaks the line of sight. It can help to have separate feeding and watering stations well spread out and behind things the others can't see.

Is there a specific place where these attacks take place? There might be enough size difference you could set something up there where the smaller ones can get through but the older ones can't. Sort of a safe haven or escape route. Maybe a piece of plywood leaning against a fence, some wire nesh with the right sized holes, or something raised off the ground just enough.

Are they going after just one chick or is one of the older a ring leader in attacking? Sometimes one is the leader, if you can identify one specific bully you might be able to isolate that one for a while. That's a common way to deal with this behavior when you can identify one. Often it is the lowest in the pecking order of the older group.

I have seen where one chicken just did not like another specific chicken. I can't explain that other than a clash or personalities. Are they going after your cockerel specifically? Sometimes older girls will beat up on a cockerel, as if they know he will one day be the flock leader but they want to keep him down as long as they can. Yours should be too young for that right now but sometimes they can surprise you with how old they act. It's something that might happen in your future but it certainly doesn't always happen.

I know this is long and hate to do this to you on your first post. I'm not sure exactly what is going on, it could be several different things. Hopefully you can get some ideas out of this to at least know what to watch for. Housing them across wire for a while longer probably would be a decent start.

Good luck!

Thank you for the thoughtful response! I have recently noticed a pattern of negative behavior that seems to be triggered by times when I'm walking in there yard. Perhaps they think im bringing food. The bigger girls seem to seek out the silkies when I'm in sight. I have observed from a window and done some tests on the theory. I have to take my dog out throughout the day and check my garden so avoiding the yard isn't possible. I have been splitting the range time between them, giving the older girls most of the day since their run is smaller in ratio to chicken size. The silkies are out in the afternoon and I try to keep them separate unless I'm active listening for issues.
The back corner where the 2 coops are is cluttered but there rest of the yard is open with lots of tree cover and plants and spots for hiding. I make piles of palm fronds for hiding in.
You suggestion of the difference in maturity being a factor makes so much sense. Silkies also seem to have a different personality. They aren't as brazen as my other breeds and they tend to be overly cautious. Perhaps it's a combination of size, maturity and demeanor.
For the time being I'm keeping them in supervised visits, although I still wonder if my supervision doesn't worsen the squabbles.