Integrating a cockerel into a flock of mature hens

[Bogtown Chick]

EYP is internal laying. I can diagnose them by palpating their abdomen. No eggs for a long time. Messy bums. Green small watery poops. Slower-malaise. Keel prominence. Then the hand to the belly and one feel of firmness you know they have it. It's so common really that if you have those showing symptoms you can call it before any necropsy.

 

[aart]

EYP is internal laying. I can diagnose them by palpating their abdomen. No eggs for a long time. Messy bums. Green small watery poops. Slower-malaise. Keel prominence. Then the hand to the belly and one feel of firmness you know they have it. It's so common really that if you have those showing symptoms you can call it before any necropsy.

Had a girl with all those symptoms......had a quart+ of dark yellow fluid in her belly, but no internal laying present and tons of tumors/lesions on her contracted intestines and repro tract.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Had a girl with all those symptoms......had a quart+ of dark yellow fluid in her belly, but no internal laying present and tons of tumors/lesions on her contracted intestines and repro tract.

True...Well maybe it's cancer then too. Outcome, prognosis is the same.

 

[aart]

Quote: There are many diseases/conditions that cause ascites(belly full of fluid)....until you open them up you don't know which caused it.....and sometimes even then you need pathology for definite diagnosis.

Internal laying is pretty obvious....but only if you open them up.
Heart and liver problems can be pretty easily seen too, if you know what a normal organ looks like.

 

[speckledhen]

@Sylvester017 ..it's Egg Yolk Peritonitis

@Bogtown Chick and @Speckled Hen was the EYP confirmed by necrospy?
Any specific thread that shows what it looks like inside after death?
Is it related to and/or caused by internal laying?

Yes, I did my own necropsies and passed on the photos to a PhD in poultry science early on and ever since, I've seen it over and over again. I will post photos of internal laying, which involves yolks being deposited in wrong places. Testing on one hen did not show ANY of the diseases they say precede EYP sometimes; these things just happen, in my experience, but mostly in birds who are "badly bred"/hatchery stock.

IF YOU ARE SQUEAMISH, don't look at the bottom of the post!

EYP is internal laying. I can diagnose them by palpating their abdomen. No eggs for a long time. Messy bums. Green small watery poops. Slower-malaise. Keel prominence. Then the hand to the belly and one feel of firmness you know they have it. It's so common really that if you have those showing symptoms you can call it before any necropsy.

Actually, EYP is not the exact same as internal laying, but they are so closely related and have the same external symptoms so pretty much, they are almost interchangeable when we talk about them. We certainly cannot tell from the outside which is in play and really, in my experience, it doesn't matter. By the time we see symptoms, the disease is far advanced. One issue is seen in conjunction with the other but my first hen death ever involved EYP but no signs of internal laying, a Wyandotte, coincidentally. She died unexpectedly just after my original group she was part of turned 2 years old. Her entire abdomen was full of loose yolk.


From the Beauty of Birds/ Avian Web:
Quote:
And from Brown Egg Blue Egg, internal laying and false laying, so you can see how similar they are and why we just use all these terms sort of one for the other, though they technically are different (not to the eye judging symptoms, though).
http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/InternalAndFalseLayer/InternalAndFalseLayer.html
Quote:


The photos from different necropsies we've done.











That above is classic internal laying, however, I did have one hen who deposited yolks for literally over two YEARS into her liver-a vet confirmed what it was. He said she was hatched with all her yolks and since she only laid briefly early in her life and never again, they were going somewhere-since it wasn't into her abdomen, it was her liver. That was a first and she was a VERY strong Buff Orp hen of good stock, a lesser hen would have perished much, much sooner. Those were quite bizarre, two baseball size tumors where one lobe of her liver should have been.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Wow Speckled hen.

Impressive to see those photos. I stand corrected on my previous statements. I learn something new always on here, everyday.

Island Girl how's the boy doing? Sorry to have hijacked your thread.

 

[speckledhen]

Wow Speckled hen.

Impressive to see those photos. I stand corrected on my previous statements. I learn something new always on here, everyday.

Island Girl how's the boy doing? Sorry to have hijacked your thread.

Well, as I said, they look similar in symptoms and often EYP and internal laying are present at the same time so it's sort of a moot distinction anyway.

Hey, Island Girl, that Ichabod is really looking like a mature male now! And I am so in love with your pup, I can't tell you. My husband is adamant he doesn't want another dog after losing our last old lady four years ago, but I feel safer with a big dog these days.


If anyone wants more photos of stuff we've found during necropsies, just search threads started by me in Emergencies. You'll find a lot of disturbing, but highly educational photos. That's why we did the necropsies, to learn stuff. I just reviewed the one I did on a Delaware hen who had a huge cyst on her bum when she passed away (I don't believe the cyst was the cause of it, but what was in it was bizarre). I don't want to muck up Ichabod's thread here with more but I think you'll find it really cool.

 

[aart]

Quote: That's why I asked for threads, was expecting links.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

Just one more aside. I've done large bore needle aspiration attempts on one of the birds. No fluid. Just a skinny plug of egg yoke. I've done just one necropsy on a bird. She was very gluttonous/ fast eating EE. Always like it was her last meal. I had never seen a bird like her before or have since then. I found her frozen in a nest box one winter day. Completely clueless as to what happened.
As soon as I started opening her it became pretty clear. 1 to 1 1/2 inches of fat under her skin. And in and throughout her abdominal organs. And weird little encapsulated bodies which I later determined with some research was most likely liver hemorrhages. I'm not a vet or anything. But a fair idea of what some common downfalls for hens are.

And with same or similar results-- loss of a beautiful bird & more roost space. Unfortunately or Fortunately. However you chose to view it. I've just sort of compartmentalized the fatal issues to their outcome at this point in my chicken career. It does become moot, for sure.

 

[speckledhen]

That's why I asked for threads, was expecting links.

Well, I've done so many threads on this and answered so many questions on other threads over the past ten years, figured if someone was interested, the photos would spur them to further investigate in Emergencies, Anne.