Integrating young pullets with mature hens - what's the best age?

[mdshec]

I have a similar issue but different ages...

I have 7 that are 14 wks and I call them the bigs, 2 Austrolorps, 2 Barred Rocks, 2 RIR's, and 1 ISA Brown. I have 3 that are 7 wks, they are Whiting Welsummer Hybrids from a breeder in Delta Colorado. I call them the littles. Last week I put the littles outside with a fence separating the run. The run is 20x30 feet and I have the last 3rd fenced off for the littles with shelter, water, and food for them. At night I put the littles in a dog crate that fits inside the coop so they are in there but protected from the bigs.

They have been pacing the fence for the last week and once in a while one of the bigs will give the littles a peck thru the fence but they mostly seem to ignore each other. Yesterday I decided to open up the fence and see how things went. For several hours none of them noticed it was even open. Finally one of the bigs did and she seemed to be ok with them. She was eating their food and one got too close so she pecked it on the head and that was the end of it. Then all the other bigs realized what was up and headed that way. The littles just stayed out of the way for a while and all seemed to be ok. Then one of the littles got too close and all the bigs surrounded the littles and started pecking at them. I shooed the bigs away and they went for the shelter in the small area so I gathered up the littles and put them in the large run area. I showed them the food and water that is under the coop which is 4 ft off the ground. After about an hr the littles were getting food and water and seemed content so I opened up the fence again. After about 30 minutes the bigs came into the large area and chased them out form under the coop and surrounded them again. I shooed them away, scooped up the littles, put them back on their side and closed the fence. Obviously it's too soon but after a week I thought I would give it a go.

The Welly's will weigh in at abut 9 lbs when fully grown and will be more than capable of defending themselves. I had one in my last flock and she was without a doubt the Queen of the castle. I am hoping that these littles will be able to hold their own when they are bigger. I have to go out of town next weekend and was hoping that my DH wouldn't have to worry about the separation issues while I'm gone but oh well... I will try again when I get home form my trip and we'll see how it goes.

We don't allow free ranging all day because we have a hawk issue. Several of the chicken keepers in the area have lost chickens to them recently. They have become quite a problem in the area but because they are federally protected we can't do anything about it. We can't even catch and release them. I called the game warden about it and even he can't do anything. The hawks sit in my willow or my neighbors elm tree and watch the chickens for a while at a time and then go out to the fields and hunt when they tire of that. Therefore we keep the chickens in their run which is fully fenced and netted until evening when I see that hawks have moved on. I would like for them to free range all day but it's just not safe for them at this point...

I'll let you know what happens next week when I try again. Good luck with yours

My little ones just run to the dogs. And that is usually the end of it. lol Have one dog that keeps the hens away from the food when I have the chicks out free ranging. I have just started letting them out when I am home so I can go check on them regularly. They are only 4 weeks old. Usually stay very close to the coop. Today they ventured out about 15ft away. Which is the furthest.

 

[mdshec]

Good luck! My three 2 1/2 year old Orpingtons have always been so gentle until we integrated three 3 month old mixed breed pullets and they have become monsters! They will hardly ever let the 3 pullets come out of the coop during the day, and pin 2 of them down and peck them at night! I have to go move those 2 pullets off the top roost to the lower roost then I leave them alone. It's been very traumatic for me to say the least! Hope yours continues o go well. How old are your young ones?

I have a similar issue. But it is with all my birds towards the Astralorp. I watched my Blue Andalasian grab the Australorp by the neck and pull it out of a nesting box.

 

[Beekissed]

Picked up 4 young black Maran cockerels today from a sister who lives in town and doesn't want roosters. Integration went something like this....I greased up their legs, dusted them for possible carryons and tossed them to the grass. They stayed to themselves in a group all day in the stretch of yard between the back porch and the garden, then went to roost on the back porch...they were promptly removed and placed on spare roosts in the coop. All very quiet and peaceful, not a peep out of any of them.

Integration process completed. Tomorrow the flock will complete their education and, as usual, young male groups will forage on the outskirts of the meadow all day in a flock of their own and only come into the coop to roost each night. It's a good life for a chicken.

 

[tararuss]

I'm having issues with integrating two sets of chickens and I'm hoping all of the experience I've read in here can help me to know if I'm doing all of this correctly. In Feb I bought 4 started pullets because as a first time chicken owner I wasn't sure Incould do baby chicks. Then in Mid March I fell in love with three Buff Orpington chicks and came home with them, accidentally of course....haha. When the Buffs were 6 weeks old the older pullets arrived and were about 18-20 weeks old. Long story short one drew blood on a Buff and I knew I needed to separate them. Split the open run in two and bought a small, temporary coop for the Buffs so they could all look but don't touch and have time to grow and hold their own. When the Buffs were 14 weeks, a good size and not making peeping sounds I integrated them. They had some times before hand to mingle while I was raking the run and cleaning coops and then both would be separated again. I have two feeders and to water stations so there is enough for everyone and it has been about 2 1/2 weeks and the older chickens seem to always have to remind the Buffs they are on the bottom and then they try to hog BOTH feeders! The Buffs get food and are thriving but at what point do they all just figure it out and be happy? I'm getting pretty frustrated at this point and enough is enough with all the pecking order stuff. The Buffs know they are on the bottom and stay away from the older chickens but they always seem to get harassed still. How long does it usually take????

 

[MollySunshine]

Beekissed: I love your straight forward approach. Darwinism at it's best. What is meant by "low stocking rates of your soil"?

 

[Beekissed]

Beekissed: I love your straight forward approach. Darwinism at it's best. What is meant by "low stocking rates of your soil"?

Oh, please don't say that....Darwin was a great fool! My methods just use observation of natural life since the fall of man and God was the Creator of everything, so it is His model I follow.

Low stocking rates means keeping flock numbers low enough that they do not over impact the soil with their feces and cause an imbalance there, with their hunting of the bug life there that strips the area of all life and with their impact on the covering of the soil. Whenever you see chickens living in a barren run, no grass covering on the soil and the soil hard packed and pocked with dusting holes that collect rain and soil that does not absorb moisture, you see soil that is unhealthy and a petri dish for all things harmful that can affect a chicken. What happens is an overgrowth of harmful bacteria and fungi due to an imbalance of beneficial bacteria and fungi that would normally keep such things in check. A moonscape of stinking, slimy and unhealthy soil.

Many people do this....they get an acre of land and start thinking, "How many can I put on here?" without first studying the land, the ability of the acre to sustain a food supply for the animal without becoming imbalanced. It's always wise to start very low when considering stocking rates, as with that model one can slowly work upwards, testing the effect of that on the land but, sadly, many start with high stocking rates and then start to notice a denuding of the grass, a smell when it rains that indicates the water is unable to cleanse the soil of the fecal matter there and flocks that start to show illness of one kind or another. Then they struggle to correct the problem without ever realizing it was their fault to begin with.

 

[chickenlady1150]

CO is Castor Oil and I use it on legs and feet to treat or prevent scale mite. I dust with pyrethrin powder, which you can order online....you'll not find it too often in many garden centers, though you can find permethrin powder and many old timers use that as well.

Building strong immune systems starts before two cells divide in that egg. The parent birds need to be hardy, healthy and strong, with the most naturally nutritious feed they can ingest, access to clean soils and adequate forage.

Then that chick needs to be on the ground in the coop immediately after hatch, just as soon as it's dry and can walk adequately, that chick needs to be exposed to the germs of the flock, of the soils and the environment in which they will be living. Any weak chicks need to be killed immediately, not held over to "give them a chance", babied around and given vitamins or meds to "help" them survive, etc. In the wild they would have none of these and they would not survive, thus insuring strong birds in that line. Better even if hatched under a broody mama, where they will be exposed to the proper germs and eliminated if they are weak.

No vaccines, no meds, no overfeeding, plenty of exercise, sunshine, huge ventilation, clean soils, natural diet while growing. Cull all birds that do not thrive on this life, who do not lay well on this life, are too old to lay, have never shown hardy vigor, poor social skills(flock picks on them...there's always a reason, cull the bird), poor temperament, constantly broody, fail to regrow feathers quickly nor look bright eyed and healthy. Acting sick? Give it a day or so to see if it will recover...do not isolate it from the flock and baby it around. If it doesn't recover in a day or so, cull it. Open it up and explore the reason, learn about the birds as you go along.

No excess cleaning and disinfecting of the coop, the feeders, the waterers, etc. Just regular cleaning on an as needed basis...there is no such thing as sterile or germ free when dealing with chickens and it's silly to even think it. They walk in their own feces every day. A swish to remove extra dirt, rinse and clean water to refresh is good enough for chickens.....they love to drink out of the muddiest, nastiest water out there even with pristine water right next to it. Maybe that nasty water helps them form immunity, who knows?

A good, cultured and composting deep litter on the coop floor and in any runs or spare pens. A varied diet of good foods found out on range, any veggies and fruits available from the garden, any meat scraps, snakes, lizards, etc. they can pick up along the way. Fermenting the feed helps but is not a cure all or a complete answer to good health, nor is DE, ACV, high pro feeds or calcium supplements.

Choose breeds that are known for natural hardiness, that do well out on range and will forage well for a natural diet...birds that haunt the feeder all the time can be culled, as they are getting no exercise and are eating bagged feed most of the time. It's the equivalent of a couch potato who eats processed foods all the time...are they going to have a good immune system and be as healthy as the rest? Not likely. If Suzy can make an egg each day on mostly foraged and natural foods and Stella can only make an egg each day if she eats lots of processed feed, guess which one gets to stick around?

No heating the coop in the winter....good, fresh air in the coop to move stale air and germs up and out of the coop. Any bird that needs heating in the winter, you can cull...they aren't hardy enough to breed or keep in the flock. Any bird that does poorly in extreme cold and in extreme heat, you can cull....they aren't strong enough to pass along genetics.

Now...do that season after season and you will have a flock that can withstand anything that comes along. I can't stress enough the power of the yearly or even bi-annual cull to insure you have the strongest birds in the coop. I can't stress enough the importance of low stocking rates on your soil, of good airflow in the coop, of exercise and natural foods and of maintaining only the strongest genetics.

Yeah...it takes work and commitment, but the end product is worry free.

Thanks for the info.

 

[MollySunshine]

Beekissed: not to hijack this thread but this is interesting and it is related to integration of sorts. I have noticed that my own run is becoming as you described. My yard supports the amount of chickens I have but since the run to me is a temporary stomping grounds I figure it is sufficient. Sunday was the first time my chickies free ranged in the yard. I am hesitant about letting them range the yard while I am working all day so I was going to wait again til the weekend to let them out of the run. I have been thinking about ways to improve the run environment. The only logical idea is they need to be out of the run so I can lay down dirt and seed. Allow nature to heal itself. I value your seasoned opinions on what I can do. I hesitate letting them roam free while I am not home. Should I not be so nervous about that? Especially since I will be receiving 8 new chickies next week. It does all come into play.

 

[Beekissed]

Beekissed: not to hijack this thread but this is interesting and it is related to integration of sorts. I have noticed that my own run is becoming as you described. My yard supports the amount of chickens I have but since the run to me is a temporary stomping grounds I figure it is sufficient. Sunday was the first time my chickies free ranged in the yard. I am hesitant about letting them range the yard while I am working all day so I was going to wait again til the weekend to let them out of the run. I have been thinking about ways to improve the run environment. The only logical idea is they need to be out of the run so I can lay down dirt and seed. Allow nature to heal itself. I value your seasoned opinions on what I can do. I hesitate letting them roam free while I am not home. Should I not be so nervous about that? Especially since I will be receiving 8 new chickies next week. It does all come into play.

Not knowing the size of the tract of land nor the nature of the available forage there of which you speak nor the size of your coop and run I'd not be able to make an educated guess as to your stocking rates, but you can improve the nature of the run by incorporating a cultured deep litter of various materials that will help keep the soils from becoming compacted, thus allowing them to absorb fluids and the nutrient flow of the litter as it digests the fecal matter.

In a run I'd build the carbonaceous materials as deep as a foot thick, as it will compost better in that manner. The more variety of particle size and density or nature of the particle will make for a better compost than if you use all one material, so I'd advise wood chips, bark, pine needles and cones, grass clippings, small twigs, woody weeds and flower stems, leaves, small portions of straw and hay, wood shavings are nice but take a long time to decompose, even corn shucks can help create air spaces within the litter pack and aid in composting. Any kitchen scraps that you would place on a compost pile you can throw in there and the chickens will either eat them or bury them for the bugs and worms. When in doubt, just imagine the forest floor where wild fowl live and try to mimic those conditions...a spongy, living, working mat of debris from the trees and plant life that keeps the soils healthy and provides good conditions for healthy bug, bacterial and fungi life.

There's a couple of large threads on deep litter on BYC and they make for good reading, particularly the latter parts wherein people have worked with the litter materials and found ways to manage it better. I don't have a run but I use a composting deep litter in my coop and have done for the past 4-5 yrs now and wouldn't try to keep a coop any other way now...every now and again I can take that wonderful compost out and put it directly on my gardens, but mostly I just add to it with seasonal and free materials.

Unless you have a good setup for free range at your place, I'd hesitate to range them without supervision. Here's an article on free ranging that may help: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/bees-key-points-to-successful-and-safe-free-ranging

 

[aart]

Quote: Ditto Dat^^^

I don't free range due to predation and other reasons....mixed plant matter makes a world of difference in the runs.
Even if you have to start slow adding materials to attain a good depth, it will improve things considerably, just keep things balanced with a variety of materials.
Here's a great description of contents and how to manage organic 'bedding' in a run or coop...and there's a great video of what it looks like.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1037998/muddy-run-help-please#post_16017992