Integration - Mama - Mean Girls

[sloanbychoice]

Apologies in advance for the length of this, but I need the background out on the table.

I had my first broody mama hatch three littles on April 6. These three littles and mama were separated in an adjacent run, so my flock could see them almost all the time. Two are certainly little boys, and I'm unsure on the third yet. I will be starting a bachelor pad very soon. In an attempt to let mama rejoin the flock, I tried letting her out of her cage one morning into the main coop, and she was met with resistance that resembled gang territory, so I quickly got her back in. It was stupid to try it in the coop anyway, and I felt like I had pushed it too hard.
Later, I tried them outside together free ranging. Mama and her babes were let out of one run, and the big kids were let out of the other run. After some time, some of my hens traipsed over to see mama and started in again. (So far, I have not let anything get far at all before I intervened, probably ruining it.) Not long after these incidents, the oldest chick, a cockerel, started being picked on by mama. She got downright rude with him, and I had to scold her and swoosh her away. She kept up her antics, so I let him out of the little kid area, into another separated run with a hen that I have to keep permanently separate. They've seen each other plenty, so I thought maybe he could be her friend, but to my great surprise, he attacked HER. Mind you, he's like 8 weeks old. He is now in my house, practicing his puberty crow.

In the mean time, another girl decided to brood, and her three chicks hatched on June 2. They are now in the same run and broody box that the first girl had been in. They are, obviously, just days old, and she seems to be doing great with them.

Now to the point, my questions are two-fold.
The newest mama is, at times, pacing the barrier, acting like she wants to go see Rudy, my rooster, and the flock.
I actually considered it for a moment, because I wonder if the issues would have been lessened had I let the first mama stay with the flock from the beginning.
Question 1: should I consider letting mama and babies mingle with the flock?

First mama has been laying for about a week now, and I'm going to pull the remaining two littles from her today, to get them put back next to the oldest chick I had to separate. I need these teenagers to get along in their bachelor pad, so I'll be getting them back together so they don't forget each other. My plan is to, after the littles are gone from her, let her back in with the flock and stand guard to make sure it doesn't get ugly. They've just got to work it out, because I'm at five separations now, and I can't do any more.
Question 2: how long after pulling the littles should I make this attempt?

Question 3: should these two situations, depending on answers to #1, be dealt with at the same time, or is that too much? On one hand, I could see all the mixing shaking things up enough to set them back a bit and make them decide which issue they want to tackle and fight. On the other hand, too much change might make them more agitated.

A tidbit of info to finish this off: I truly believe my flock is the least accepting flock you've ever seen in your life. I've spoken with several VERY experienced people who all agree that my flock are just, well, B-words. I am just not sure how they would deal with a hormonal mother and her tiny babies. And I don't see them just stepping aside while one childless mother returns to join them.
I really don't want anyone hurt, partially because, selfishly, I just can't keep separating birds, especially for injuries right now. My plate is full.
But part of me says, dang it girls, just get over yourselves already!!

Side note - I recently got ducks. Wow are they so much tamer than chickens!!

I welcome and appreciate all forms of experience and advice on this!!

 

[Mrs. K]

My advice - You need to mix things up all the way around.

• put the new broody in with the flock. That was your mistake with the old broody. Her hormones are raging, and she can stand her own with the flock. I never separate my broodies. They need to establish power in the flock all through the broody time. I do have standard sized chickens.
• Secondly, I would put the old broody and watch. I would mark the first 3 Bit.... that attack her, and THEY go in the separation. Leaving the old broody with the other hens. Some hens are incredibly aggressive and will start the attack, and then the less aggressive will join in. Remove the leaders, and a lot of the time, the others won't be too bad.
• Do not interfere unless blood is being drawn, use a high powered squirt gun to separate them, without separating them so to speak, it often times will cool their jets, so tot speak.
• OR put the old broody, together with the new broody with chicks, and one or two of the middle of the layers. How do you know who is the middle of the layers? Stand a ways away, throw down a treat. You don't want the first birds to get there ( top of pecking order) you don't want the last birds to get a treat (bottom of the pecking order) you want a couple of birds out of the middle. Wait a week or two and then send a group into a group.
• The rooster chicks - I would put with your most aggressive hens. They won't tolerate his behavior and teach him some manners. Make sure there are hide outs in your run, or clutter - but let them school them. Roosters need an education, or they will get out of hand.
• The lone pullet, is a little more tricky. I think I would put her in with the old broody and the less aggressive hens.
• A trick to integration - is more is better. Adding more birds at once is the best. Fighting takes a lot of energy, and spreading it out over more birds, tends to work the best.

Hope some of this helps.

Mrs K

 

[Mrs. K]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/#post-21588636

 

[aart]

I welcome and appreciate all forms of experience and advice on this!!

How big is your coop and run?

I never separate my broodies.

I always do, but inside coop with wire wall, but reintegrate about a week after hatch.

 

[Greyflower72]

Glad I found this thread. We’ve decided to let our broody birds hatch some eggs when it happens next. I wasn’t going to separate at all except for the 21 day hatching. Than just open her little brooding box made specially for this purpose to give her space, quiet, and peace while she hatches. I figured mam knows what she’s doing and to just let the chicks follow her around.

What is the best way? Should I spectate for awhile or just let the chickens do their thing?

 

[Mrs. K]

At first, I separated durning the hatch. But now, I just try and get down there early and keep an eye on things. I like to set eggs when I am sure I will be home 20-22 days later. My broodies will set for about 12-24 hours, and after that leave the nest with the babies that hatched.

I let her introduce them to the flock on her terms, I set up water and feed close by for the first day or two, until she has taken them out to the run.

Mrs K

 

[Greyflower72]

At first, I separated durning the hatch. But now, I just try and get down there early and keep an eye on things. I like to set eggs when I am sure I will be home 20-22 days later. My broodies will set for about 12-24 hours, and after that leave the nest with the babies that hatched.

I let her introduce them to the flock on her terms, I set up water and feed close by for the first day or two, until she has taken them out to the run.

Mrs K

Thank you so much! That’s what I was going to do but wasn’t sure if it was the correct approach. I have a wooden box that I use for a brooder. I was going to move her to the box and once they hatch open it. This way she’s not bother while brooding but able to take the chicks out when she’s ready. Should I not separate her from the flock at all? Just turn one of the nesting boxes into her little area? I could easily make something that would hold water/food for her to attach at the opening. The other thing is the nesting box is high up. I could always move the brooder into the pen area at floor level.