Interesting conversation with King freedom feed nutitionist this am

[NatureChica]

Its interesting what a great number of countries have banned our food.
They dont want our gmo's and we have been pretty slow (as a collective nation) in figuring out why. We are too busy arguing in politics about the safety of it to actually screen and test the food. The fact that monsanto is suing people and playing the denial game is proof positive that its not a moral based company making this food
I think a new staff of administrators within the FDA and EPA is needed. Normal people with zero political ties. There shouldn't be politics in our food. Money has corrupted much.

 

[momto6Ls]

whole corn does build heat in fowl in winter = cracked corn is a filler ..................... meat fowl are not meant to free range because of trying to find a food that keeps moving . as for your crops in the field thay have to be sprayed in some manner. i have and had fowl for over 40 years . to many people think thay read enuff to do this ( raising poultry ) learn how to take care of your poultry the way you want and don`t worry how thay fill in your hands or gut fat or the color of there heads or feathers or legs scales or if there gizzerd is moving ...........etc.... your feed companies are going to tell you what thay have been taught pellets are better than grain not . thank`s mike

Wow Mike, LOL
Evidently I have not read very much! I have no idea what all that stuff means - color of feathers, heads, leg scales, gizzard moving...I have read some, but try to take my information from people who are doing it and know/have experience first hand - not just pretty ideas from the internet or fluff from companies that are selling something.

Thank you for bringing it back to MY yard. Doing what I feel is best, after gathering information is really the only way to do it.

After we butchered our first two chickens I was disappointed. But according to a weight chart I saw, they were about average for their age (and they are not a "meat breed"). I think I am just used to seeing hormone treated, filler injected chickens in the store. I must be doing OK with the feed if they are comparable to meat breeds at that age.

I must ask, are we mistaking superior palatability in fermented feed with better nutrition? I think so.

A lot of people also wash their chicken grains during the fermentation and sprouting process. This leaches nutrients, and calories from the feed.


... Just so you don't think that I am a total ogor "SOAKED" feed is great for your hens because you are taking none of the dangers with spoilage your hens face from sprouted or fermented food. And the moisture that the hen needs to soften and digest their food is already in the grains. There is also little waste because i feed soaked food on pieces of corrugated roofing tin and the birds don't get a chance to rake through it with their bills, or scratch their soaked food over all of Hades and half of Georgia.


A good quality seamless bucket that can be easily cleaned is a must. Just add as much dry feed to your soaking bucket as you normally feed and then add as much boiling water as this amount of feed will absorb in several hours. Keeping up with the total volume of added boiling water the first few feedings will allow you to duplicate this recipe without any further trial and error or measuring. Oh, and don't forget a large metal spoon so that you can dish out the groceries. And always be sure to rinse out the bucket when you are done feeding.

Thank you for this!! I would rather soak the grains - much less time and energy on my part!! LOL Sometimes is only gets soaked, because I have so many chickens and they eat so much - I have only been using one 5 gallon bucket. I was feeling like I needed to do more, but now I can do less and stop feeling guilty. But why boiling water? I am just using good old tap water at room temperature (we are on a well, so it is not chlorine treated).

Never washed it! It always went straight from the "soaking bucket" to the feeder (minus the water, of course - I just put it in a colander for a minute or so to drain a bit).

Do you have a picture of your feeding system? I cannot get a picture of how you would feed chickens from roofing tin...Is it just on the ground and they walk over it? I am looking for something other than standard multi bird feeders because they are rusting. Not my idea of healthy. I have 40 birds right now, but plan to butcher most of the roosters in the near future. I will still have 20 hens when the roosters are in the freezer.

I do have a couple more questions, though...You said:

Commercial broiler-fryer operations feed 22% or higher protein. The overwhelming ammonia smell coming from a broiler house in hot humid weather is due to excess protein in the chicken feed (actually the manure) mixing with Hydrogen and converting into Ammonia. The lesser ammonia smell coming from the manure of chickens fed fermented and sprouted grains and mash is the result of less or poorer quality protein. If it saved on feed costs the commercial poultry industry would be fermenting their feed, but because they don't it shows that fermented feed is not what it's cracked up to be.

If the overwhelming ammonia smell coming from a broiler house is from the manure and "excess protein in the chicken feed"...then they are not using the protein - it is being eliminated, and then turning into ammonia. They are being overfed. Is there a flaw in my thought process? If they are eliminating the protein, then they are not able to use it...my understanding of fermenting was to help them digest the protein they are actually getting instead of eliminating and wasting it. Thus you would want less of an ammonia odor in the hen house...and even though there may be less protein in the grain they actually eat, they are able to use closer to all of what they are eating...instead of wasting it and annoying our noses.

Fermenting takes time and energy...and equipment and increased labor on a large scale. That would mitigate the cost savings commercially. I'm not sure "that shows that fermenting feed is not what it is cracked up to be." It may just not be feasible on such a large scale...

Where is that flawed? Just trying to process the information you gave me. I want to make sure I understand what you said.

GREAT discussion. Thank you!!

Karen

 

[momto6Ls]

Its interesting what a great number of countries have banned our food.
They dont want our gmo's and we have been pretty slow (as a collective nation) in figuring out why. We are too busy arguing in politics about the safety of it to actually screen and test the food. The fact that monsanto is suing people and playing the denial game is proof positive that its not a moral based company making this food
I think a new staff of administrators within the FDA and EPA is needed. Normal people with zero political ties. There shouldn't be politics in our food. Money has corrupted much.

Or we could just throw out the EPA, and the FDA and save our money, and let the consumers guide the market by demand...no wait - that would be capitalism...

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

when you crack a wholegran it lose its value , it`s just a filler after that.i think it holds its value after cracked for 3 or 4 days, scratch feed most i have seen come with something added as in whole wheat, mike.

Sometimes I get a migraine from reading some of the misinformation on BYC.

Simply grinding the corn doesn't result in loss of nutrients in 4 days, that is just nonsense.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Quote: Here goes nothing!!

No i am unaware of a fault in your thought process. Boiling water is absorbed quicker and boiling hot water is also a sterilant that is useful to retard the spoilage of soaked feed. The term "cracked up to be" is a literary reference to the cracked grains in chicken feed.
High protein chicken feed is fed because of the long and arduous breeding of broiler (called meat chickens) on this forum. Twenty two percent protein is the minimal percentage of protein that the majority of broiler chickens can utilize, but in living animals there are no absolutes. Some individual birds may utilize more or less protein. Because the people who are the most opposed to Monsanto etal. have never realized that time is money and vise versa, these people often advocate shortsighted solutions to their self generated long term problems.

I have a few 2x2 foot squares of new leftover corrugated roofing tin laying around. I use a large one piece metal spoon that resembles what the lunch room ladies used to serve up our school lunches, to dish out my soaked feed and these squares of tin are my young chickens' school lunch plates. Is that clear?

Because protein is Nitrogen and Nitrogen is protein you can only change the form of the protein but you can never increase the total protein amount to a greater amount than was already present. So the term "Total Digestible Protein" in sprouted food refers to cellulose, and cellulose is not something that is terribly good for chickens. I never fed my soaked feed "sloppy", just with as much water as it could comfortably hold.

The feeding of wet feed is easy, it is the spoilage and possible disinfectants needed to keep sprouted and fermented feed from turning rank that makes feeding fermented and sprouted feed on a large scale, socially as well as monetarily uneconomical. Either an auger or chain type automatic feeder can be converted to feed the before mentioned food stuff. But at least on a commercial scale it is currently unfeasible for the above reason.

Besides, grains like oats, wheat, barley etc. are shockingly short in the protein department and no amount of H2O will make up for this lack of protein. I only fed soaked feed in the heat of Summer (June through September) because I could get the feed into the chickens and they digested and through it quickly. This said, it probably represented less than 35% of my B B Rs total food intake, maybe less after the swelling of the feed is figured in or figured out, whichever the case may be. By feeding a soaked ration in the late evening I also conditioned my birds to be back on the poultry Ponderosa when roosting time rolls around because soaked feed is highly palatable. I did this not to lock them up at night because all my young birds were 100% free range. Free Range birds are the strongest birds you can raise, and besides mother nature is a very efficient culler of the fit from the unfit. However I did want to have all my birds roosting in trees that were within range of my ears and thus under the gun as it were of my personal protection.

 

[centrarchid]

I am seeing a lot extreme views being presented here. When comes to actual nutritional concepts, multiple parties need to slow down and vet their "facts". These facts being tossed around are making for a conversation that is little more than a display of opposing views that are taking us no where.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Its interesting what a great number of countries have banned our food.
They dont want our gmo's and we have been pretty slow (as a collective nation) in figuring out why. We are too busy arguing in politics about the safety of it to actually screen and test the food. The fact that monsanto is suing people and playing the denial game is proof positive that its not a moral based company making this food
I think a new staff of administrators within the FDA and EPA is needed. Normal people with zero political ties. There shouldn't be politics in our food. Money has corrupted much.

Me thinks that the Anti GMO side has more to lose than Monsanto because there has been NO testing of conventional food to determine its wholesomeness. What will the Bouteaque food industry do when it becomes apparent that "Natural Red Tibetan Salt", or Organic Andean Quinoa causes your hair to fall out?

Yes and by law the Japanese must return their automobiles to the place of manufacture every 5 years for a "SAFETY" evaluation. The cost of this "SAFETY" evaluation is so high that it is much cheaper for a Japanese motorist to buy a brand new car. The old cars are rounded up and dumped on the International Used Car Market driving the worldwide demand for Japanese cars. This helps keep Japanese auto workers in rice and miso. The campaign of disinformation is deliberate and shameful, it is specifically designed IMHO to kill Black and Brown peoples through starvation, malnutrition, and what goes along with the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse..... warfare.

These food bands are much harder to overturn because they are not direct tariffs but a more insidious trick devised to prop up the EU export and domestic market at the expense of the US Farmer and Taxpayer. Without these blatant lies about US agriculture products the US would have completely dominated the Third World food import business at the expense of the Third World's former Colonial Masters.

Monsanto is laughing all the way to the bank. Because regardless of the type of crop that you plant, companies like Monsanto and BayerAG makes out like a bandit. The reason is because they sell seeds and agricultural chemicals to all comers, but especially to the Keebler Elves who farm in a hollow tree in a land called Annalee.

In Japanese cultural failure is not an option. Therefor every used car in Japan presented for a "SAFETY" evaluation is first completely rebuilt using brand new factory parts. Only then is the "SAFETY" evaluation performed. This undoubtedly prevents many Toyotas from cutting out their livers.