Interesting conversation with King freedom feed nutitionist this am

[Cindy in PA]

Some people will do anything to put down organic feed & it is amazing. King feed dude is just selling his product & it is tough to keep the GMO crap out of Non GMO fields, but good organic companies test for GMO & do the best they can. And the crap about the toxic chemicals is another ruse. If you don't like organic, don't buy it! You don't have to put it down to make you feel better about your decision.

 

[momto6Ls]

Cindy in PA - that is funny. I don't need to put down anything. I think it is important that people know the facts. Have you seen the government sheet of "approved chemicals" for certified organic? If you haven't you might want to seek it out - just for your own information. Knowledge is power...which is why we are all here seeking better ways to raise our chickens, right?

If you want to believe in organic and buy it GREAT. There is no reason to get mad at us for having a different opinion...and using facts to come to our opinion. I choose natural whenever possible. I don't take medications and I don't give them to my animals. I avoid chemicals whenever possible...I just don't buy organic. I'm sorry if you are offended by my reasons...but they are good ones to me.

Any thoughts on the soy free, corn free, but higher in protein options? What do you feed your chickens that is high in protein? somebody mentioned animal based proteins, but I can't find it at the moment to see who it was. What animal based proteins are best? Do you just feed them ground up meat? I have read that some do.

 

[tcstoehr]

The dirty little secret is that Organic Crops are treated with some of the oldest and most toxic chemicals known to farming. Things like Neem Oil, Ronote etc. Most non Organic or Genetically Modified crops are never sprayed with the same class of deadly chemicals.

Are you saying that organic crops are intentionally sprayed with worse chemicals than non-organic? Doesn't make sense. You're implying that the organic growers willingly decide to use deadlier chemicals than their non-organic counterparts. To what end?

My understanding, right or wrong, was that there are certainly chemical sprays allowed for organics on a crop by crop basis, but these chemicals were the least destructive ones available for the job. And of course the list changes yearly.

 

[Cindy in PA]

Cindy in PA - that is funny. I don't need to put down anything. I think it is important that people know the facts. Have you seen the government sheet of "approved chemicals" for certified organic? If you haven't you might want to seek it out - just for your own information. Knowledge is power...which is why we are all here seeking better ways to raise our chickens, right?

If you want to believe in organic and buy it GREAT. There is no reason to get mad at us for having a different opinion...and using facts to come to our opinion. I choose natural whenever possible. I don't take medications and I don't give them to my animals. I avoid chemicals whenever possible...I just don't buy organic. I'm sorry if you are offended by my reasons...but they are good ones to me.

Any thoughts on the soy free, corn free, but higher in protein options? What do you feed your chickens that is high in protein? somebody mentioned animal based proteins, but I can't find it at the moment to see who it was. What animal based proteins are best? Do you just feed them ground up meat? I have read that some do.

I don't go by the Government list of organic, I go by the company & their reputation & answers to my questions. The USDA program was nothing but a money grab by big ag to get into the organic game & try to push local organic out. I do not buy organic from the likes of Cargill or Purina! You did not offend me. I of course use conventional feed & other stuff, but I prefer organic & the wild lies on here about organic are amusing, but I think they doth protest too much!

 

[flurry37 2001]

whole corn does build heat in fowl in winter = cracked corn is a filler ..................... meat fowl are not meant to free range because of trying to find a food that keeps moving . as for your crops in the field thay have to be sprayed in some manner. i have and had fowl for over 40 years . to many people think thay read enuff to do this ( raising poultry ) learn how to take care of your poultry the way you want and don`t worry how thay fill in your hands or gut fat or the color of there heads or feathers or legs scales or if there gizzerd is moving ...........etc.... your feed companies are going to tell you what thay have been taught pellets are better than grain not . thank`s mike

 

[bigt447]

Please explain the nutritional difference of whole grain corn from that of the same corn cut into pieces. Ain't it still corn?

 

[flurry37 2001]

when you crack a wholegran it lose its value , it`s just a filler after that.i think it holds its value after cracked for 3 or 4 days, scratch feed most i have seen come with something added as in whole wheat, mike.

 

[bigt447]

So all the cracked grain in crumble feed has lost much of its nutritional value and is then just filler??????

 

[chickengeorgeto]

...... I am gonna have to do more research. This is not the information I have found on fermented feed. It is my understanding that the animals are healthier, happier, and eat less when fed fermented feed. (all of which has been my experience) If it destroyed the protein I would think they would eat more because their body requires the protein. Also - my animals crave it! They come running - goats as well as chickens - as soon as they know I have sourdough to feed them. They fight over it! LOL With all the options of feed I have offered, soaked grains and sourdough are definitely the favorites. Now goats are different - they will eat until it kills them - but chickens eat what they need. They will choose what they need if given options. Hmmmmm.

I only fed fermented grains (sometimes only soaked, not fermented) every other day. Sometimes they had the option (I have 2 feeders and I would only fill the feeder/s that were empty) and they always finished the soaked/fermented grain before the dry...if it is nutritionally inferior, can anyone explain this?

If anyone has any other thoughts or more info - any articles - I would be happy to read them.

Fermented and sprouted are used interchangeably. Both the fermentation and sprouting process uses up or degrades part of the protein present in your chickens feed.

Commercial broiler-fryer operations feed 22% or higher protein. The overwhelming ammonia smell coming from a broiler house in hot humid weather is due to excess protein in the chicken feed (actually the manure) mixing with Hydrogen and converting into Ammonia. The lesser ammonia smell coming from the manure of chickens fed fermented and sprouted grains and mash is the result of less or poorer quality protein. If it saved on feed costs the commercial poultry industry would be fermenting their feed, but because they don't it shows that fermented feed is not what it's cracked up to be.


I must ask, are we mistaking superior palatability in fermented feed with better nutrition? I think so.

A lot of people also wash their chicken grains during the fermentation and sprouting process. This leaches nutrients, and calories from the feed.


Everything in nature requires protein to grow. Therefor when chicken grains are sprouted the grain uses up some part of the protein as well as calories to produce shoots, roots, and leaves. This protein is converted to "Total Digestible Protein" This is not what it sounds like because "Total Digestible Protein" is represented by the cellulose present in leaves, shoots, and roots and it is separate from molecular Nitrogen which is the gas that fuels the Sun. Total digestible protein is wonderful food for a cow but it is poor chicken food. Just so you don't think that I am a total ogor "SOAKED" feed is great for your hens because you are taking none of the dangers with spoilage your hens face from sprouted or fermented food. And the moisture that the hen needs to soften and digest their food is already in the grains. There is also little waste because i feed soaked food on pieces of corrugated roofing tin and the birds don't get a chance to rake through it with their bills, or scratch their soaked food over all of Hades and half of Georgia.


A good quality seamless bucket that can be easily cleaned is a must. Just add as much dry feed to your soaking bucket as you normally feed and then add as much boiling water as this amount of feed will absorb in several hours. Keeping up with the total volume of added boiling water the first few feedings will allow you to duplicate this recipe without any further trial and error or measuring. Oh, and don't forget a large metal spoon so that you can dish out the groceries. And always be sure to rinse out the bucket when you are done feeding.

 

[flurry37 2001]

yes it is, the other stuff is made by master mixer at the mill to pellet form. mike