Intestinal bacteria

[Leo1]

So, I'm kinda at my wit's end. I have a 1 year old. She's had 3 rounds of prescription anti biotics and she eats fermented food. Her bacterial over growth has come back again pretty shortly after the last round of anti biotics. Not sure if she getting reinfected or I'm not getting it all. I've had gram stains run and it's showing gram positive cocci, I think it was,(not the cocci we typically refer to), and negative rods. Anyone have thoughts? Should I have them run for specific bacteria? Or run for anti biotic sensitivity?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I have a 1 year old. She's had 3 rounds of prescription anti biotics and she eats fermented food.

Most of us more experienced folks refer to coccidia and coccidiosis in their correct context as often as possible for exactly the reason you note.. Cocci.. is a very shortened and misused term. After 3 round of antibiotics.. I'd start to worry about MRSA etc.. but now one else in the flock is having issues? Has she been separated or can you describe things in more detail please, good job already.

Try stopping the fermented feed.. since it clearly isn't helping anything. How long have you been doing this for?

Standard moistening the feed gives almost the same benefit.. IMO.. And FF didn't save me a dime, increase the health of my flock, or any of the other things touted by it really.. See if my link works at the bottom, it's a good read but keeps downloading to my chrome book instead of letting me link it.

What is this feed that you ferment? Is it a formulated ration?

What are the symptoms of her bacterial over growth please? Is she a recent addition? How many birds in how much space? Waterer type? Any previous unexplained death or limping? Ever treat for coccidiosis as a chick? Were they vaccinated for Marek's?

Gram positive cocci are staph and strep.. virtually in every environment.. YOUR gal is having a personal immune system condition.. try and boost her immune system if battling the bacteria isn't working.. add in significant probiotics instead of relying on FF.. Add in some B complex!

Get something like rooster booster BRAND Poultry cell product or Poultry Booster

Please understand that I'm here to support you and your flock and all my questions are just looking for clues to that end. I don't have all the answers, but I do think you are asking some good questions.. that I can surely also learn from. Sorry you face this. It's obvious you are working very hard to resolve it and care about your birds! Thank you for sharing your challenge with us! I hope you do get some answers and that she recovers quickly!

Some key resources of knowledge here, appreciated by many.. @ChickenCanoe @Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock, TIA ALWAYS!

 

[Leo1]

Yes, I believe they had cocci when young, I think they were around 2 months and I did treat. When I say "I believe", they had something, I treated with corrid, it went away. I only have 4 birds and huge amounts of space. The only other bird having a bit of a issue is the old lady. She's 9.5 years old and no where near as affected. Joey, the girl in question, has been having trouble since the summer. She seems to feel 100% fine, though. Good weight and, even though she's molting, she's happy and energetic enough to bounce around the yard today. If i didnt have the poo evidence, id think she was perfect. She gets the squirts and has some bloody mucus or intestinal lining, but she also has normal poos quite often. When she has the squirts its normal poo, just wet and her poo is always majority poo, with a bit of yucky stuff. They get green mountain organic feed, which isn't fermented and a mix of lentils, grains, sunflower and sesame seeds and that's fermented. Did I miss any questions? Her molt is medium heaviness and her feathers are growing back quickly (I think, she's only been at it a few days and already has 3/4" feathers). I have some human probiotics I can put in capsules and give her. It's a little old, though. And I can give b complex pills. I assume you can't overdose a chicken on those? I've also got lots of garlic I can give her? Vitimin C? Oh, and her symptoms do go away, for a bit, after the antibiotics. And the question I missed...yes, they are marek vaccinated, assuming the hatchery did it when asked.

 

[dawg53]

Exactly what prescription antibiotics are you giving your 1 year old hen?

 

[Eggcessive]

Who is doing the gram stains on your chicken’s droppings? What happens when you overtreat with antibiotics is that you will have an overgrowth of candida albicans (fungus, yeast.) Anytime you give antibiotics you risk upsetting the balance of good bacteria in the gut. Clostridium difficile is a bacterial disease peole can get from overuse of antibiotics. If your vet can do a gram stain, they should be able to tell you what it is. What are you giving the antibiotics for?

I agree with giving probiotics and limiting any future antibiotic use. Also, I would stop the fermented feed, since that may be a source of problems, until your chickens get back to normal. I tried fermented feed for almost 7 months once, and was not impressed with the results. In freezing temps as you have, it would be hard to keep it thawed, and it has a tendency to go bad in warm weather. There is nothing wrong with giving dry feed. When I have some powdery feed left over, I sometimes add water to it, and my chickens eat it the same day. Then I clean the container.

 

[Leo1]

I wasn't going to allow a bacterial overgrowth, that was damaging her intestines run rampant when I had tried other options. I don't like antibiotics, but sometimes they are necessary and I understand the, potential, consequences. I'm going to try what was mentioned and, hopefully, it will help.

 

[dawg53]

I'm not going to allow a bacterial overgrowth, that is damaging her intestines to run rampant when I had tried other options. I don't like antibiotics, but sometimes they are necessary and I understand the, potential, consequences. I'm going to try what was mentioned and, hopefully, it will help.

Please answer my post #4. There are certain antibiotics that will specifically treat certain types of coccidiosis that others wont.

 

[Kiki]

I'm not going to allow a bacterial overgrowth, that is damaging her intestines to run rampant when I had tried other options. I don't like antibiotics, but sometimes they are necessary and I understand the, potential, consequences. I'm going to try what was mentioned and, hopefully, it will help.

Are you going to argue that your way is working and ask for help in the same breath of air?

What antibiotics have you used?

 

[Eggcessive]

I'm not going to allow a bacterial overgrowth, that is damaging her intestines to run rampant when I had tried other options. I don't like antibiotics, but sometimes they are necessary and I understand the, potential, consequences. I'm going to try what was mentioned and, hopefully, it will help.

I am not against giving antibiotics ever, especially if you know what they are being used for. It is just that some people overuse them, and they can leave residues in eggs. Have you used Corid to treat coccidiosis? Or have you used an antibiotic, such as Albon, sulfadimethoxine, or other sulfonamides? Chickens can get enteritis, and a common bacteria that causes it is clostridium perfringens which is common in the soil. What antibiotics have you used? We are not trying to pick on you, but to help you figure out the problem. If a vet does a positive gram stain and fecal float, they ahould identify the organism found. Cocci is no longer used here as an abreviation for coccidiosis because one type of bacteria is a coccus or cocci (staphylococcus, streptococcus, etc.)

 

[Leo1]

I started off with vitamins and probiotics and when then didn't work I did the gram stain. For the cocci(or whatever we're calling it now), yes, I did corrid because I didn't want to mess around. The first round of ABs, I can't remember. The last 2 we did metronidazole because it's "supposed" to be more targeted and leave the "good" bacteria alone. Joey's gram stain says: 4+ gram -, 4+ gram+, 3+ gram+ cocci. I talled to my holistic vet, yesterday, who originally thought ABs were appropriate when we weren't getting anywhere, and she recommended "gut soothe". I do not intend to do anymore antibiotics unless she starts to show clinical signs of being ill.