Intestinal bacteria

[Leo1]

So, I'm kinda at my wit's end. I have a 1 year old. She's had 3 rounds of prescription anti biotics and she eats fermented food. Her bacterial over growth has come back again pretty shortly after the last round of anti biotics. Not sure if she getting reinfected or I'm not getting it all. I've had gram stains run and it's showing gram positive cocci, I think it was,(not the cocci we typically refer to), and negative rods. Anyone have thoughts? Should I have them run for specific bacteria? Or run for anti biotic sensitivity?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I have a 1 year old. She's had 3 rounds of prescription anti biotics and she eats fermented food.

Most of us more experienced folks refer to coccidia and coccidiosis in their correct context as often as possible for exactly the reason you note.. Cocci.. is a very shortened and misused term. After 3 round of antibiotics.. I'd start to worry about MRSA etc.. but now one else in the flock is having issues? Has she been separated or can you describe things in more detail please, good job already.

Try stopping the fermented feed.. since it clearly isn't helping anything. How long have you been doing this for?

Standard moistening the feed gives almost the same benefit.. IMO.. And FF didn't save me a dime, increase the health of my flock, or any of the other things touted by it really.. See if my link works at the bottom, it's a good read but keeps downloading to my chrome book instead of letting me link it.

What is this feed that you ferment? Is it a formulated ration?

What are the symptoms of her bacterial over growth please? Is she a recent addition? How many birds in how much space? Waterer type? Any previous unexplained death or limping? Ever treat for coccidiosis as a chick? Were they vaccinated for Marek's?

Gram positive cocci are staph and strep.. virtually in every environment.. YOUR gal is having a personal immune system condition.. try and boost her immune system if battling the bacteria isn't working.. add in significant probiotics instead of relying on FF.. Add in some B complex!

Get something like rooster booster BRAND Poultry cell product or Poultry Booster

Please understand that I'm here to support you and your flock and all my questions are just looking for clues to that end. I don't have all the answers, but I do think you are asking some good questions.. that I can surely also learn from. Sorry you face this. It's obvious you are working very hard to resolve it and care about your birds! Thank you for sharing your challenge with us! I hope you do get some answers and that she recovers quickly!

Some key resources of knowledge here, appreciated by many.. @ChickenCanoe @Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock, TIA ALWAYS!

 

[Eggcessive]

Who is doing the gram stains on your chicken’s droppings? What happens when you overtreat with antibiotics is that you will have an overgrowth of candida albicans (fungus, yeast.) Anytime you give antibiotics you risk upsetting the balance of good bacteria in the gut. Clostridium difficile is a bacterial disease peole can get from overuse of antibiotics. If your vet can do a gram stain, they should be able to tell you what it is. What are you giving the antibiotics for?

I agree with giving probiotics and limiting any future antibiotic use. Also, I would stop the fermented feed, since that may be a source of problems, until your chickens get back to normal. I tried fermented feed for almost 7 months once, and was not impressed with the results. In freezing temps as you have, it would be hard to keep it thawed, and it has a tendency to go bad in warm weather. There is nothing wrong with giving dry feed. When I have some powdery feed left over, I sometimes add water to it, and my chickens eat it the same day. Then I clean the container.

 

[dawg53]

Exactly what prescription antibiotics are you giving your 1 year old hen?

 

[Eggcessive]

I'm not going to allow a bacterial overgrowth, that is damaging her intestines to run rampant when I had tried other options. I don't like antibiotics, but sometimes they are necessary and I understand the, potential, consequences. I'm going to try what was mentioned and, hopefully, it will help.

I am not against giving antibiotics ever, especially if you know what they are being used for. It is just that some people overuse them, and they can leave residues in eggs. Have you used Corid to treat coccidiosis? Or have you used an antibiotic, such as Albon, sulfadimethoxine, or other sulfonamides? Chickens can get enteritis, and a common bacteria that causes it is clostridium perfringens which is common in the soil. What antibiotics have you used? We are not trying to pick on you, but to help you figure out the problem. If a vet does a positive gram stain and fecal float, they ahould identify the organism found. Cocci is no longer used here as an abreviation for coccidiosis because one type of bacteria is a coccus or cocci (staphylococcus, streptococcus, etc.)

 

[Eggcessive]

"Gram positive cocci" is how it's listed on the report.
[/QUOTE]
Gram positive cocci is not coccidiosis, which is why we do’t abbreviate coccidiosis as “cocci” anymore. Coccidia is a protozoan parasite. Gram positive cocci could be a staph or strep bacteria, or other coccus. Gram negative cocci examples would be Neiseria gonorrhea, N. meningitidis, H. influenzae (which is classified as coccobacillus.) Here are examples of different cocci bacteria:

 

[Aunt Angus]

Boy, that sounds frustrating! I'm sorry you are dealing with this! I'd be at my wits' end, too.

My chickens have not needed antibiotics so far (knock on wood!), but I know from having a son who is allergic to most antibiotics that knowing exactly what strain you're dealing with helps figure out what antibiotic to use. I think that's what folks are asking. Which strain of cocci are you dealing with? There are so many, and they all suck!

The folks you're getting help from have coached me through caring for several of my chickens over the years. They know what they are talking about.

It sounds like you've done exactly what you should do to fight off bad bacteria. I wonder if it's something in the environment? Like in the soil?

I hope you can solve this! It would be driving me crazy....

 

[dawg53]

Since you used corid, I recommend SMZ-TMP or sulfadimethoxine to treat coccidiosis. Metronidazole will not treat it.

 

[dawg53]

I'm not going to allow a bacterial overgrowth, that is damaging her intestines to run rampant when I had tried other options. I don't like antibiotics, but sometimes they are necessary and I understand the, potential, consequences. I'm going to try what was mentioned and, hopefully, it will help.

Please answer my post #4. There are certain antibiotics that will specifically treat certain types of coccidiosis that others wont.

 

[Aunt Angus]

That's why we did that last round of anti biotics because we thought, maybe, she was getting reinfected. That was about 3 months after the second round, I think. But, since it's super cold, now.... I just feel like I've tried everything. Haven't done a test for the specific bacteria, yet. All I now, right now, is gram negative rods and gram positive "cocci". I would have thought, for $100, it would have been more specific: /

Good grief! I applaud that you're still trying. I've seen people give up after less.