Introducing fall chicks to 10-year-old hen in December

[broadwing]

Hi all,

Been lurking a while but could use some advice on this new trio we just started. My old girl, Dahlia, is a GL Wyandotte whose one-and-only 11-year-old flockmate died this weekend. I put up a Speckled Sussex, Welsummer, and barred Rock in a 20gal tank with a 125w IR bulb in my draft-free snake room (they're all in tanks) where they'll be coziest.

Couple of questions, since we're doing things a lot differently this time:

1. They'll be weaned off the heat and going outside in December but we've never done fall chicks before...it seems easier when they're old enough to go out exploring and then one nice summer day you just pop them into the coop and call it good. The coop is a 4x4ft space in my unheated garden shed with a concrete floor and a doggie door cut in the wall to a short enclosed run protected by a hedge on the west and the shed to the south (prevailing wind here in Portland OR is from the SW). In case of really nasty winter storms I close the doggie door and open the inside coop door to give them a little more wiggle room in the shed. Given that I can't seem to get ahead of the dust out there, I don't think a heat lamp is a good idea. Is there a heating solution suitable for a dusty environment and that won't set my girls on fire? Or if we can acclimate them to near-ambient outside temps (I don't have a garage but our buddy might be able to board them in his) by mid-December, will they even need one?

2. Which brings me to the introduction question: any advice for making these introductions in the winter? Dahlia will either have a new flock or she won't, and I'd think after being alone for a few months she'd welcome the company, though with her old flockmate they would gang up on newbies like Mean Girls. I think we'll let the little ones explore the yard every day starting in November, and she can watch from the run...but we don't have space for a separate run to keep them in, so they'll have to be put into the coop one night and left there.

3. We've had nothing but trouble with rodents in recent years and I've tried almost every possible trap method with little success (won't use bait because of the dog, plus as a falconer I could never use something that indiscriminately kills raptors). I trained my last two girls to use a ratproof treadle feeder which cut my feed cost by about 2/3, but it took them about a week (in the summer) to figure it out...and the chicks have to be heavier than two pounds to make the treadle work. Will the little girls be safe from a big brazen rat if I have to leave a traditional feeder in the coop until I can teach them about the big feeder? I'm hoping Dahlia can show them how the treadle feeder works, but if I leave an easy-access feeder in for them, do you think she'll quit using the other one? Will these breeds be heavy enough to use it by the time they have to go outside?

So here are my new little girls; in the top pic, from top: Rose (Welsummer), Fern (Speckled Sussex), and Poppy (barred Rock)... being watched over by Hugo, our Greater Swiss Mountain Dog. Looking forward to a new overload of eggs in the spring! Thanks in advance for your help

 

[SueT]

Once they are feathered, they can handle your winter weather.
Integrating can be done using the 'see but don't touch' setup. Temporxrily divide coop and run. Monitor reaction from hen over a week or two.
Re the rats, yes gotta do something. I never leave feed out at night. I kept setting traps each night, and eventually caught a rat and many mice. You can use live traps or put kill traps where chickens cannot access them just in case they get up earlier than you. No poison. I've seen a chicken eat a mouse.

 

[lazy gardener]

First, welcome to BYC. Second, what is the ambient temp of your snake room? If it's above 70*F, it very well may be too warm for those chicks, especially in the tank you are using to brood them, and with such a high W bulb.

Chicks need to have a warm place to go to warm up. It is actually detrimental to their health to keep them in a brooder that is warm throughout! The warm end of the brooder should be around 90* for the first few days, there after you should decrease the temp at the warm end, taking your cue from the chick's comfort level. They only need a small foot print of warm space where they can go to warm up, then, they will run back out and play in the cooler area. Think of Mama Broody Hen. She has her chicks out and about at 48 hours of age. They spend all day chasing after her, and exploring their outdoor world, and eating the goodies she shows them. They only run under her occasionally to warm up. Many chicks are brooded in early spring/late fall, even with freezing temps, frost and snow on the ground, and those chicks do not spend all day under the hen!

By the time they are 2 - 3 weeks old, they should have about 2 s.f. of open space in the brooder per chick. They grow very fast, and their flight feathers start coming in at 1 week. They need plenty of room to work on their flying skills!

Because of the dander, many of us brood our chicks right outside in the coop. And we've found that it's much easier, safer, and more natural for the chicks to be brooded with a heating pad cave. You can read about it in Blooie's article: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors.68067/

and the MHP thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...re-heavy-update.956958/page-810#post-17950417

Further, if you brood your chicks in the coop and/or wean them appropriately from heat (no matter the heat source they should be off all heat by 3 weeks if you have them in your house) they should be ready to join your elderly hen well before December. Gone are the days of waiting until your pullets are full sized before introducing them to other flock members. Many of us have done it that way, but have found that it's far easier to integrate chicks into the flock at a much earlier age, if done properly. @azygous is the queen of early integration and can guide you through this process. She has an article attached to her signature. Please get your chicks into the coop well before cold weather in December. Both they, and you will be happier for it.

 

[broadwing]

The run and coop are linear--you have to get through the coop (where the feeder is) to get to the run (where the water is), so there's not really a good way to divide them up. I could maybe cut the coop in half and keep Dahlia in with her own water and food for a little while (she could go outside in the afternoons when I get home), but I'd have to reconfigure it first. Between the nest box on one side and the feeder on the other, neither would have much floor space.

Re: the rats, live traps are my last hope, because I have literally tried everything else. They are bold, and know how to defeat everything including snap traps, glue traps, and electronic traps in various configurations, baited with everything under the sun. I put the kill traps inside boxes to keep them away from the girls and innocent wildlife.

The last trio caught a mouse that got away while I was training a hawk a few years ago: they ran it down like a pack of mini-velociraptors and *shared it* on the spot. It made me seriously consider whether "chickenry" needed to become a thing.

 

[broadwing]

The snake room temp is above-average but the house naturally stays around 65 and we don't run the heat until it really starts cooling off. The thermometer in the tank near floor level right now says it's a little over 90, but the lamp is at the far end, above the tank top (we tried a regular spotlight at a lower height first but it wasn't warm enough). They have the whole length to explore with the water at the other end, and sleep just past the feeder on the edge of the beam, about a third of the way into the tank. They don't huddle and seem comfortable for now, but I know they'll need a lot more space once they get a little bigger... (off to work, gotta run)

 

[SueT]

Have you tried using peanut butter as bait for the rats and mice?
I agree with everything said in post #3--very wise advice.

 

[azygous]

You're overlooking how to make life simple for yourself and more fulfilling for the chickens. Buy one of those compact resin tool lockers and move all the garden tools into it. Then remove the partition on the 4 x 4 "coop area in the shed and turn the entire shed over to your chickens. You benefit and they will benefit.

Then you will have the space to rig up a safe pen for the chicks with a heating pad cave for a heat source and brood them right in the coop. Dust is no problem for a heating pad. The advantage of brooding the new chicks out in a coop with Dahlia is she will look on the chicks as her flock from the start, and the chicks will understand Dahlia's temperament and you will be able to begin letting the chicks mingle with Dahlia starting at age two weeks using chick portals from the safe pen. (Article below this post)

By age four weeks, your chicks will be both weaned off heat and acclimatized to the outdoor temps. No further heat will be necessary. All of this accomplished well before December.

As the chicks grow, they will naturally begin to explore the run and by that time, they will be an integral part of Dahlia's new flock.

 

[broadwing]

Have you tried using peanut butter as bait for the rats and mice?
I agree with everything said in post #3--very wise advice.

PB (crunchy and smooth), various cheeses, dog kibble/treats (he gets breakfast outside and I've seen them scavenging his crumbs), leftover pasta, bread, commercial gel bait, chicken scratch/pellets, fruit...

Edit to add: they've stolen all the above from the traps, including the electric one with fresh batteries, and how they did that I have no idea.

 

[broadwing]

You're overlooking how to make life simple for yourself and more fulfilling for the chickens. Buy one of those compact resin tool lockers and move all the garden tools into it. Then remove the partition on the 4 x 4 "coop area in the shed and turn the entire shed over to your chickens. You benefit and they will benefit.

I would love to do this but we'd need to hire somebody to pull out all the cabinets first (we may end up having to do it anyway to help exclude the rats) and that's really not in the budget at the moment.

We really weren't expecting to do this right now; Holly went downhill quickly and we weren't prepared to start chicks until next spring...but with Dahlia as old as she is we thought it better to not let her stay lonely all winter since she's always had at least one buddy. Add to that the logistics of finding peeps when all the area feed stores are shutting down their chick rooms, and we had to grab a few while we could.

 

[lazy gardener]

I missed your rat issue in the first read. Rats do pose a very real threat to chicks. Good luck with that. I've recently discovered that there are rats here as well. So, I need to get busy with traps.