Introducing "hunting" dog to chickens? Need help!

[mothergoose]

Skat,
Yes, they are wonderful dogs. Don't loose heart. My German shorthair is awesome. We have 5 kids, ages 2-10. He is just great, You can throw food of anysort at his feet or hold it under his nose and he will not take it till you tell him it is OK. With kids, it is great because they leave stuff everywhere. He doesn't poop in the yard at all...he goes out into the pasture to do his buisiness. That still amazes me, and he did that all on his own. Now, if he could teach our ducks to not poop in the yard, I would have it made! We have birds that free range and he is out amungst them all day. My dog was raised with the birds, and the birds are raised with the dog. They are not afraid of him. They don't scater when he walks by them , they just do their thing and don't mind him. He is great preditor control too. Keep at it. Patience is the key!
Christie

 

[ChickMomma]

Rebels,
Yes technically they can be different commands and in the professional world I know that they are. However dogs will respond with whatever action you want them to take with what ever word you teach them to associate it with. They can hear tones and do not truly understand the "word". However it is easier for humans to speak the action they want the dog to do.
I think it is wonderful that people can train to work their dogs. I love watching well trained dogs in action. I only train to protect my sanity! I dont like to be jumped on or walked and we have a leash law here so if they are out and dont come when I say come they are not considered in my control and could be taken away if the right person came along.
Just my take from a nonprofessional point of view!
Susanne

 

[RebelsHope]

Susanne,

You are so right that dog read our non verbal body language before they follow verbal commands and if the two don't match the dog will follow body language mostlikely. That is unless you really wanted them to follow the body language and in that case they will just make you look like a fool

Ya know when we can only communicate with words on forums like this it gets confusing, wish we could see each others body language and hear the tone of voice. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that "leave it" is a command for before the object was in the mouth. If a chick got in that big dogs mouth, it would probably be all over for the chick anyway. I just didn't want anyone to get confused.
Oh and I think sanity is the best reason to train.

Sometimes think i am losing mine!

Beth

 

[ruth]

I'll offer my 2 cents worth but if it doesn't work for you don't sue me. Visit my personal pages and you will see the story of Rex, my GSD, and how he has been guarding the chicks since they were a few days old. Rex is well trained and well bonded with me so if this does NOT apply to your dog - all bets are off. We work from home so Rex is with me 24/7. He understands moods and almost any words. I've read some of the posts about what they can understand and what they can't and I can't speak for most dogs but I know that Rex understands exactly what I mean whether through body language, tone of voice, or words.

Anyway, when I brought the baby chicks home of course he was excited - jumping up trying to see what was in the box. When I showed him he started trying to get in the box and was diving towards the chicks. Not sure what he intended to do. I brought both dog and box of chicks inside. While I held onto his collar, I put the box of chicks on floor and let him look in and sniff to his hearts content. Of course he was excited and barking and still trying to get at them but I just kept talking to him in a very calm and quiet voice and with my other hand would pet the chicks and tell him that they were baby chicks and that he should guard the chicks. For a few minutes I had to keep saying "No bark, guard" "No eat, guard" "No jump, guard". All the while petting the chicks and picking up one at a time and holding it to his nose (dogs go by smell most of all) mind you I still have him by the collar just in case he decided to go for it. It really only took about 20 minutes before he calmed down and laid down by the box. I kept telling him to "guard" the baby chicks. Now Rex knew the word "guard" because each night when we went to bed we told him to go "guard" and he would go lay outside our bedroom door for the rest of the night. Each morning he was thanked for guarding us. By that first night, Rex was guarding those chicks like you see in the photo. He guarded them so well that he actually growled at me one night when I tried to drag him out of the bathroom because he had been in there all week. I decided not to test our friendship and let him stay. Though he had never stayed outside at night, when I moved them outside to their pen a week later he began sleeping out there and refused to come in. He growled at the other cats and dogs if they came near the pen. At 4 weeks the chicks were free ranging and Rex was always with them.

Don't know if this will help you or not and I know it depends on the dog. But Rex immediately understood that I loved those chicks and as I petted those chicks and cuddled them and showed them to him, he loved them too. If he went outside he had to check on them when he first came in. You could watch him count them as he sniffed each one - like yep, one, two three, four - all there. I moved them to the pen so quickly because Rex kept wanting to crawl in the box with them.

Hope this helps you and others who are worried about their dogs and pets interacting with the chicks. We also have a cat who goes out and sleeps in the chicken run and even in their coop - guess he thinks he's the guard cat. With dogs I really believe you have to instill a love and concern for the chicks in the dog. I wouldn't want to trust that he is only refraining from eating them because he is "well trained". Rex doesn't do anyting because he is "well trained" (he gets the mail, newspaper, brings in groceries, and guards), he does it because he loves to please.

 

[momoftwinsinwi]

I was in the run with the chickens last weekend and turned around to find my black lab "Roxy" in with me more interested in what the birds had to eat then the birds themselves, but when I went to catch "Big Bertha" she thought I might need some help but a quick...."no Roxy" and she went sulking away

---She was a rescue though and if you raise your voice even a little, you feel terrible because of how she cowers, she's the best black lab I've ever had and listens so well....good luck!!!!

 

[skatcatla]

Thanks all for the great replies!

Yes, fortunately my GSP is VERY well-trained. I've been working with her since she was a puppy, so she knows and responds to Sit, down, stay, drop, come, etc.

Oh and for those that mentioned The Dog Whisperer, I know Cesar Milan personally. He actually worked with the dog of one of my colleagues. I agree that while I respect Cesar and the work he's done (especially with the really "difficult" breeds like Rotts and pits), I don't agree with all of his techniques. He's a bit too into Dominance Theory for my tastes. I'm more in the camp of Patricia McConnell when it comes to dog behavior.

Getting a dog to "submit" does have some great value when dealing with other DOGS..but I'm not sure of the value in dealing with prey species like birds. I have been making her sit and lie down while I hold the birds and that instantly takes some of the tension out of her, but basically I've realized that she's just really curious, like Ruth's GSD (ruth, your GSD's behaviour described my GSPs right on).

I've also noticed that she's only fixated on them when they are actually IN the crate. When I take them out and hold them on my lap, she is ok with sniffing at them. She's still a bit more tense than I'd like, but MUCH calmer than the first night.

So, for the past couple of days I've been letting her basically visit the girls with me whenever she likes, rather than try to keep her from them. As a result, she's been calmer and calmer with them..this morning when we got up, the first thing she wanted to do was go visit the chicks. So I let her come in with me while I changed their water and feed, and after a few good sniffs she was ready to leave.

I think we'll get there. I'll never just leave her alone with them, but I'm pretty sure that she'll eventually get used to them being there (and in their coop). Its so fascinating isn't it?

 

[ruth]

Hi Skatcala - yes, I believe your dog is just interested, like most dogs and cats, and that if you slowly expose them and let them sniff and get used to the chicks and be around them together the dog will learn that the chicks are part of the family and will leave them alone or even begin to protect them, like Rex. I don't think the best method of getting a dog to leave chicks alone is to threaten them, punish them or "command" them to "sit" because then the chicks become some sort of enemy or fobidden fruit and I know my dog is not that well trained and I don't know whose is. Best thing is to make them friends. Though Rex is well trained in that he knows the basic commands, he only does them if he wants to - meaning if he really wanted to chase after a coon or possum that came into the yard (which he does), my telling him to "leave it alone" or "no" or "sit" or anything else is not going to override his protective instinct to chase it. Just like he growled at me when I literally tried to drag him out of that bathroom because he would not obey me or follow commands to go "out". His instinct to guard those chicks overroad his training. Just like a dog's instinct to kill and eat them will override his training so best to work on the instinct. By the way we have two dogs and four cats and they all leave the chicks alone when they are free ranging.