Is it Dun or Sex-linked Recessive Chocolate?

[Spangled]

There is an auction and I can't tell if the chickens are Dun or Sex-linked Rec. Chocolate from reading the auction and looking at the photos. The auctioneer confirms they are from a "chocolate" chicken, but I'm not smart enough to be able to tell by looking at the photos if they're Dun (hobby name "chocolate") or Sex-linked Rec. Chocolate (aka "chocolate"). And I don't want to bid unless I know.

CHOCOLATE/DUN/BROWN BANTAM COCHIN HATCHING EGGS

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...hatching-eggs-auction-ends-sunday-3-4-8pm-est

Any help would be appreciated.

PS for those reading along, Dun vs. Sex-linked Recessive Chocolate is explained at this link:
http://www.chickencolours.com/Brownies & Khakis.pdf

 

[nicalandia]

they are Dun based, but not because they don´t look chocolate colored, they are dun because the breeder itself its mentioning the dun color, you see a breeder of recessive sex link chocolate would never put the word "Dun" with their chocolate projects..

now I just don´t see what´s the issue, as Dun can look just as chocolate as true breeding chocolate.

here is Dun based chocolate polish(nice shade of chocolate)

 

[Meara]

I'm also pondering this auction. The bird LOOKS chocolate, but then again dun has many different shades depending on modifiers. But the brown chick pictured doesn't look like any shade of dun I've ever seen so I think it may be chocolate. I read somewhere that bantam cochins were one of the breeds with sex-linked chocolate.
I have come across any number of breeders who haven't fully mastered the genetics (and "accepted" terminology) of the birds they are breeding and plenty of experienced breeders who still use alternative terminology. I believe that HenThymes also breeds chocolate orpingtons and that may be the source of her cross breeding material to bring the gene into her cochins. But I'm just guessing........ I'm not sure what to think. I wish there were some clarification from HenThymes.

 

[Spangled]

Nicalandia and Meara, thank you both for your thoughtful replies. I appreciate your input. A lot.

But, of course, we still can't tell can we if it's dun (I^d/i+) or sex-linked recessive chocolate (choc). Hmmm. I think I would enjoy playing with some dun (I^d/i+) chickens, but I'd hate to end up with sex-linked recessive chocolate (choc) instead and then spend a year or so trying to figure out why the khaki (I^d/I^d) isn't showing up. Beating my head against the wall. That would make me sad.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Nicalandia and Meara, thank you both for your thoughtful replies. I appreciate your input. A lot.

But, of course, we still can't tell can we if it's dun or chocolate. Hmmm. I think I would enjoy playing with some dun chickens, but I'd hate to end up with sex-linked recessive chocolate instead and then spend a year or so trying to figure out why the khaki isn't showing up. Beating my head against the wall. That would make me sad.

The variety is named "chocolate," and since the standard is based upon appearance, not genetics, it really does not matter from the standpoint of the standard whether they are dun or choc based. Indeed, I *think* the variety was named before choc was identified as a gene (not 100% sure on this). If you want to clarify that you are talking genes, not appearance, I would suggest saying "choc" rather than chocolate.

 

[Spangled]

The variety is named "chocolate," and since the standard is based upon appearance, not genetics, it really does not matter from the standpoint of the standard whether they are dun or choc based. Indeed, I *think* the variety was named before choc was identified as a gene (not 100% sure on this). If you want to clarify that you are talking genes, not appearance, I would suggest saying "choc" rather than chocolate.

Yes, ma'am. I will go back and edit my post.

 

[Meara]

Huh, learned something new. I didn't know the standard for the variety was based on appearance and not genetics. But is that only for certain breeds or all breeds? Doesn't breeding "true' factor into that somewhere?
I don't show birds or even own a lot of purebreds, but I'm very interested in genetics.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Huh, learned something new. I didn't know the standard for the variety was based on appearance and not genetics. But is that only for certain breeds or all breeds?

The standard states the appearance; there is no genetic testing in the showroom; it is all based upon what the judge sees. Yes, the genetic makeup has a lot to say about the appearance, but there are a number of examples of different genetic combinations that can create the same appearance. For example, golden neck is a variety of d'Uccle; it can be created with either dominant white or with splash. Buff can be either wheaten or asiatic partridge based. etc.

 

[Meara]

So I went ahead and asked HenThymes for some clarification. Haven't heard back from her yet.... Doesn't that brown chick in the picture look chocolate rather than dun?

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

So I went ahead and asked HenThymes for some clarification. Haven't heard back from her yet.... Doesn't that brown chick in the picture look chocolate rather than dun?

I am not convinced that choc and dun look different; with all the stippling on the hen in the photo, I am not really convinced that she is either and not simply e^b