is it good to feed chickens wheat?

[EggSighted4Life]

Sorry, I no longer debate it here. People that use FF have their minds made up that fermenting feed can magically remove things and make it better. It is best salesmen job, by the distilleries, I have ever seen.

I understand. I am NOT about debating or drama!

But I am here to learn and DON'T completely have my mind made up. I have been fermenting for a good year with decent results. But I like to see studies that show the WHOLE truth. And my savings is NO WHERE near the 30% some claim. In fact, I recently even started making dry feed available because I don't buy ALL the claims. So sincerely, if you have the time to share your take, even by PM I would be OPEN and happy to hear it. IMO, anybody that can't listen to another perspective... can remain a fool. I am a serious seeker of all things truth! And I've seen YOU around plenty of threads to know your input is valid.

 

[centrarchid]

yes they are, all the time

There are times when I would feel comfortable feeding wheat only and that is when birds can forage freely. I use some combination of whole corn, oats or BOSS for same effect, but carefully watch ranging habits. Here, forage intake can seasonally be dominated by insects like now and during the spring. During such times the energy intake relative to protein intake is low. They invest a lot of effort to get the grains to dilute diet when they can. In spring they can often do similar by simply eating lots of greens. Sometimes the arrangement works for short periods (week or less) during cold winter when birds just huddled up and just trying to stay alive. When diet is too out of balance they will start ranging a lot farther and get aggressive going after different types of food.

 

[Digby57]

I understand. I am NOT about debating or drama!

But I am here to learn and DON'T completely have my mind made up. I have been fermenting for a good year with decent results. But I like to see studies that show the WHOLE truth. And my savings is NO WHERE near the 30% some claim. In fact, I recently even started making dry feed available because I don't buy ALL the claims. So sincerely, if you have the time to share your take, even by PM I would be OPEN and happy to hear it. IMO, anybody that can't listen to another perspective... can remain a fool. I am a serious seeker of all things truth! And I've seen YOU around plenty of threads to know your input is valid.

I also want to know. I am using FF as a supplement to a bagged feed, but that's mainly because the part of the ration I'm fermenting costs more than the bagged feed itself. I only started doing so because I want to add variety to their diet and dilute the corn and soybeans at least a little while providing a source of probiotics I knew was actually viable.

I'm new, but I wanted to see what results I got by spending a little extra money to get going while I'm still small. On the other hand, I would like to know if someone with real experience thinks its just hype and why.

 

[lazy gardener]

I would debate that....

I've done a lot of research, and there are SOME things I have questions about. Would actually LOVE the opportunity to hear another take!

Sorry, I no longer debate it here. People that use FF have their minds made up that fermenting feed can magically remove things and make it better. It is best salesmen job, by the distilleries, I have ever seen.

So, Ralph, are you debating today, or are you not debating today? I stand behind Fact as provided by the science: the nutritional analysis comparing a fermented product with the same product which is not fermented. I also stand behind the personal testimony I can provide when comparing my flock's condition with the flocks of friends and neighbors who use the same feed, provide the same conditions, the only difference being that I ferment and they do not.

The following paragraphs are not pulled from my limited knowledge base, but are quoted from scientific study that supports the value of fermentation (and I might add, sprouting) in reducing the anti-nutrients (phytate), as well as improving the protein and vitamin content of the grains being analyzed. I quote these articles and suggest that the reader who IS NOT INTERESTED IN LEARNING stop reading right here, and move on to an other thread.
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This exerpt from Tikki Jane's article:

Another benefit of fermentation is that frequently the product does not require cooking or the heating time required for preparation is greatly reduced (Steinkraus 1994).

Figure 4 – Influence of natural fermentation of cereals on available lysine.
Data from Hamad and Fields (1979)

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Here's an other article that might be enjoyed by the reader who wants to expand their knowledge: http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/7/1/390/htm

This article references the dietary benefit as well as short comings of wheat. Of particular note is the copied paragraph below:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods/wheat#section9

Antinutrients
Whole-grain wheat contains phytic acid (phytate), a nutrient that impairs the absorption of minerals, such as iron and zinc, from the same meal ( 21).

For this reason, it has been referred to as an antinutrient.

This is usually not a problem in well-balanced diets, but may be a concern in diets that are largely based on cereal grains and legumes.

The phytic acid content of wheat can be reduced considerably by soaking and fermenting the grains (21).

For example, the phytate content of fermented sourdough bread may be reduced by 90% (58).

BOTTOM LINE:Whole wheat contains phytic acid, an antinutrient that may impair the absorption of iron and zinc from the gut.
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Millet, b/c it is drought tolerant and has a short growing season is becoming a much more popular part of the human (and animal) diet. I quote the following article:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1541-4337.12012/full

Millet grains, before consumption and for preparing of food, are usually processed by commonly used traditional processing techniques include decorticating, malting, fermentation, roasting, flaking, and grinding to improve their edible, nutritional, and sensory properties.
It has also been reported that millet proteins are good sources of essential amino acids except lysine and threonine but are relatively high in methionine. Millets are also rich sources of phytochemicals and micronutrients (Mal and others 2010; Singh and others 2012).
It contains about 92.5% dry matter, 2.1% ash, 2.8% crude fiber, 7.8% crude fat, 13.6% crude protein, and 63.2% starch (Ali and others 2003). Also, foxtail millet protein characterization showed that its protein concentrate is a potential functional food ingredient and the essential amino acid pattern suggests possible use as a supplementary protein source to most cereals because it is rich in lysine
Effect of germination and fermentation of pearl millet on proximate, chemical, and sensory properties of instant fura (a Nigerian cereal food) was examined. It was found that germination appeared to be a promising food processing method for improving the nutrient and energy densities of fura and, when combined with fermentation, reduced phytic acid significantly (P < 0.05) (Inyang and Zakari 2008).
Germination and probiotic fermentation caused significant improvement in the contents of thiamine, niacin, total lysine, protein fractions, sugars, soluble dietary fiber, and in vitro availability of Ca, Fe, and Zn of food blends

Fermented foods are also produced and consumed worldwide in terms of their importance for human food (Mugocha and others 2000; Gotcheva and others 2001). The chemical compositions of millet grains and their food products were found to be modified by fermentation. Therefore, millet grains are used to produce different kinds of traditional fermented foods in developing countries in Africa and Asia. Fermentation is one of the processes that decrease the levels of antinutrients in food grains and increase the protein availability, in vitro protein digestibility (IVPD), and nutritive value. It has been indicated that fermentation of processed pearl millet.......

This article goes on to cover the value of fermentation and it's use as a valuable food preparation and preservation method in many, many countries. Nutritional analysis noted improved vitamin and protein content. I got tired of cutting and pasting. So, if readers are interested, I suggest that you pull up the above article and read it yourself. However, if you are not interested in the nutritional benefit of fermentation (or sprouting) you would be better to spend your time in other ways.

 

[lazy gardener]

My take away from this morning's research: I will be picking up some millet, and will see if hulled millet will sprout (for my own use). Perhaps I'll play with sprouting, soaking and fermenting millet for my use. I may also pick up a bag of bird seed quality millet, and include it in my winter sprouting formula for the chickens.

 

[duluthralphie]

If FF is so good, and so much more economical why do the factory farms not use it?

They do anything they can to save a penny on a bird or speed growth by a day. Sorry, Not debating... leaving thread. People that like to FF are like debating religion or politics nothing good comes out of it.

If you like doing it, keep on doing it. Bye all

 

[PirateGirl]

If FF is so good, and so much more economical why do the factory farms not use it?

They do anything they can to save a penny on a bird or speed growth by a day. Sorry, Not debating... leaving thread. People that like to FF are like debating religion or politics nothing good comes out of it.

If you like doing it, keep on doing it. Bye all

Not about FF

I think Backyard flock owners often concern themselves with intentionally doing things differently than factory farms for various reasons. Factory Farms have a lot figured out that we can learn from, but there are other aspects that we often try not to replicate in our backyard setting. I'd like my diet to be more akin to a time before highly processed foods and factory farms.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

i have a flock of 30 chickens and i feed wheat as a complete diet, i do this because in our location wheat is a lot more cheap than layer feed, is it ok to feed them wheat as a complete diet?
any advice would be helpful!

Most wheat is at best about 8% or 9% protein. A wheat diet and nothing else will quickly kill your chickens.

 

[lazy gardener]

Have a great day, Ralph. You can choose your method. It works for you. And, i have no doubt that you provide great nutrition for your flocks. I'll choose my method. It works for me. But stating that the idea of fermentation is propaganda promoted by distilleries is a statement that can't go without challenge.

Large scale operations do not use FF, because it is more labor intensive. If you'll note the info on the nutritional analysis and ingredients list, feed manufacturers are now including dried probiotics in their feed. Do these dried microbes affect the bottom line of the nutrition of the feed? Who knows. But even the feed manufacturers are sitting up and taking notice about what many folks in developing countries, and now even the United States have known for years: Fermentation (and sprouting) enhance the nutrient level of grains.
https://blueseal.com/files/feeding-and-mgmt/equine/home-fresh-extra-egg.pdf

The above is a link to a nutritional analysis and ingredient list of a popular egg layer feed. If the reader will note, there are a lot of probiotics now being added to prepared feed mixes.

 

[PirateGirl]

Also there are some great threads on here on mixing your own feed (you will need to use the search function) where you can buy whole grains in bulk and what proportions to mix them in to give your chickens "complete" nutrition without buying commercial pellets/mash. Depending on Fock size it either becomes economical or cost prohibitive.