Is it Marek's??

[Back2MyRoots]

I too am grateful for this thread---I've read all the posts and am not sure if what I have is Mareks. I have sent a pm to a very knowledgeable handler here on byc and am waiting for her to reply, but in the meantime, any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ok, here's my story. I have only been raising chickens for about 6 months now. I have raised 25 in 3 different stages, keeping the favorites and selling the ones I have no attachment to. My first 25 were hatchery birds. Some were vaccinated for the disease; some were not. After my last sale (this was one Wednesday), I was at our local feed store (also a breeder of several different types of poultry) and they had two lonesome 2-week-old golden laced wyandottes for sale. I asked about them and the owner said that one had apparently fallen through the wire and had a sore knee (and a bit of a limp) but the other was fine. He said he'd sale the healthy one and give me the one with the gimp leg for free---it would probably heal and be fine. They had not been on medicated feed, so when they got home, they started on high quality medicated feed(what all my other chicks have been on). They both seemed fine except for the little limp in the one and her knee was sort of red. After a couple of days the redness went away and she gets around better, but is still limping some. And when you check her toe response, you can tell that leg is just not as strong. Anyway, Saturday after I got them I went in to check on them and the other chick without the limp was very weak (the night before she has seemed perfect). I mixed up some electrolyte water and tried to get some down her with a dropper, but she just kept falling asleep and wouldn't take any. I held her for a while and she died a little while later in my hands. It's the first chick I'd lost so I was pretty upset, but I had the sense to dump the brooder in the garbage (we usually compost) and to wrap the chick up and throw her away as well (it's in my nature to bury in the flower garden) just in case it was something catching. I sterilized the brooder before putting the remaining chick back in it, though if it was something contagious, it is exposed anyway. The remaining chick still seems fine (it's been one week now since I brought them home) and her leg seems to improve every day. I check her several times a day and keep her apart from any other birds. I wash my hands and change shirts when I hold her before handling my other birds.

Anytime you say a bird is limping, the first thought is mareks, because it is so dangerous and so hard to get rid of if you ever get it in your birds. So when I did research about what could have killed the one, I came up with possible mareks. But does it make sense that the other is fine? And They are now just 3 weeks old. Is that too early for it to be mareks? Any suggestions? One thread even suggested that if you have the tiniest inkling that it could be mareks to cull. Better to be safe than sorry. I don't even begin to know how I would cull a 3-week-old chick! On the one hand, I feel so sorry for her and want her to be ok and on the other, I am scared to death to keep her. I just don't know what to do!

 

[seminolewind]

Backtomyroots, I doubt it's Marek's. It would be pretty rare to have it prior to 6 weeks. I think I would go with some internal damage (since her leg is injured), or coccidiosis, (the medicated feed is no guarantee), or some other illness. I don't think you could have saved her. I'm very sorry you lost her.

 

[LakeBird]

This has been a very informative thread. I am experiencing a 26 week old Lemon Orpington pullet that seems to be paralyzed. I walked into the coop one morning and she was laying on her side on the poo board. I isolated her immediately, while I researched her symptoms. At first I thought marek, but found this thread. I have seen her move her feet. She does kick and push off the dog crate I have her in...She just can't stand or sit upright. She has been like this for a little less than a week now. I have been giving her crushed B complex vitamins (1 per day in her feed). I will get to the feed store and pick up some vitamin additive for the water. At the time this happened, I had just started treating my flock for corid. Not sure if that could have affected her. No other issues with any other birds since this happened.
Not sure what else I can do for her.

 

[seminolewind]

Hi Lakebird. Marek's is hard to diagnose because the symptoms are so varied. There are classic symptoms and symptoms that are less common.

Aside from symptoms, you have to have a good flock history, one that helps point to Marek's. More than one bird? Any new birds?

I've had one a week get paralysis (young) and, older birds that have wasted away , 1 every few months.
I've had an vaccinated bird get paralysis, and spent 2 months learning how to walk again, and gain weight and go back out with the flock. I think with any of them with Marek's, they get real skinny.

The closest you can come to Diagnosing Marek's, aside from a Necropsy, is
- any age, more common under 10 months, most common 6 weeks to 16 weeks
- A flock history. New chickens? Chickens that have had contact with other chickens? Any chicken that
was not hatched by you or bought as a day old from a hatchery.
- In young chicks, the chicks will get symptoms closer together. Older chickens will get symptoms farther
apart in time. If one is exposed, they will all be exposed.
- More than one chicken becomming symptomatic.
- paralysis probably getting worse: going into the wings or neck. Picking at food but not really eating any,
like can't aim. But still looking hungry.
- Most do not look sick, not ruffled up standing in a corner--until close to death, maybe.

Does your chicken fit any of this? This is a loose guideline, but most of the best questions we have.

Lakebird, I think reaching for Corrid is a good idea. It's the thing I do first as well.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:

Keep her in a safe place and make sure she can get to food and water.

I agree with what seminolewind says about Marek's. I sometimes have a sudden death bird or a wasting bird that succumbs to that form of Marek's. Marek's is ubiquitous, and most flocks have been exposed. It is spread by dust and dander. The virus is long lived. Once on the premises, it will always be there. There is no way to disinfect and kill the virus. The only protection is vaccination of day old chicks and then keep them segregated for 3-4 weeks form the flock. There is no guarantee the vaccination will work.

I started losing a bird or two a year to the classic paralysis form a few years ago (like you are describing), usually a pullet at point of lay but cockerels at about 9-10 months. I would let them go all the way down before dispatching them (or taking them to the state lab form testing). I had a couple sent to the State Lab, and they confirmed Marek's. It was never enough to make me want to go through the trouble of vaccinating my chicks. I just thought if I kept breeding from old birds who obviously survived that I would have birds that were naturally resistant to Marek's.

Last year (like previous years), I had a cockerel and a pullet go down about or around the same time. The pullet went all the way down, still eating, alert, doesn't seem to be in pain. It starts with them being wobbly on the feet, then proceeds to not being able to walk, then can't stand ( I now notice it from the start). I was about to put her down but it was a nice, sunny day so I put her outside in the shade with food and water and let her enjoy her last day. I kept the Geese and other chickens off her (but her clutchmates never picked on her anyway). Next thing I knew, she was trying to stand up. I gave her another day and found her standing in place (she couldn;t walk, just stand). I let her live and she fully recovered. She nows lays eggs & is a good layer.

As always, the cockerel was my best one of the year, and he went down just as I was getting him ready for a show (he was my #1 pick -- always seems to be that way). When the show came around, he was on his belly, had no use of his legs. I told the lady feeding my birds while I was out-of town for the show to make sure he had food and water in front of him and I would do the deed & put him down when I got home in a few days. When I got home, he could stand up too. He fully recovered and in a rapid way. Last year was the first time I had any to recover like that. I used the male as a breeder, and he was fertile (sired chicks) and looks great. He is in his first molt, but I hope to show him as a cock this year.

Both of these birds that recovered went down just like the others that I had taken to the lab & had confirmed Marek's so it is possible for a bird to recover. This year, I have not seen any Marek's yet (but it is usually October- January for the ones from the Spring). Good luck to you.

 

[LakeBird]

I got my first set of chicks last April: 13 day old lemon Orpingtons. Of this bunch, 5 died: 3 seemed healthy and suddenly dropped dead and 2 stood around fluffed up with eyes closed. At the time I had no idea what to look for or how to treat any birds. I hatched 5 chicks in June and kept 2. Both have died, one had a respiratory infection that I did not treat fast enough and the other I nursed for 6 weeks, a Black Orpington: she had almost every symptom listed above. I also hatched 8 orpingtons, one stood around fluffy with her eyes closed and died soon after. I have also added 7 other chickens, ranging from 1 year to 8 weeks – all healthy as of today.

I live on a lake with lots of different birds: ducks, seagulls and eagles. I am beginning to think that either the original 13 chicks had mareks or it is present on my property…maybe because of the variety of wildlife. It’s amazing the amount of things I have learned because of the birds I’ve lost!

As for the pullet I am nursing now, she has none of the symptoms listed above except for the fact that she can’t stand on her legs or sit upright. I am putting her in the upright position daily and it seems she is able to sit upright for longer than when this started.

I am wondering now if maybe I should immunize for marek’s and do I do it yearly? Also is there anything else I could do to help this pullet beyond giving her a B vitamin and electrolytes? And suggestions would be very much appreciated.

cgmccary: thank you for sharing your experience! It changed my mind about culling her.

This is the before: you can see the shaving are not under her legs...she can stretch out her legs. When she does this, she moves the pine shavings




She is now sitting up if I put her in the sitting position. If she moves, then she slides back into the position you see above.

 

[seminolewind]

Cgmccary, that sounds almost exactly like myflock! Thanks for sharing all that.

Lakebird, the chicks dying does not sound like Marek's. I don't know if they died from a respiratory illness or Coccidiosis, had they ever been on the ground?

As Ggmccary and I were both surprised to see a chicken or two actually recover and walk again. Mine is still doing well. So maybe nursing her will give her time to see what she does. I think I might try to roll up towels or something and prop her up with them. Like positioning aids.

Vaccinating for Marek's after exposure to other chickens has not been found to do any good. It's a race between who settles in the chicken's system first, the vaccine or the virus.

With new chicks for the first week, I feed mush made with chick feed and water. I think they eat more that way and I think it makes them healthier.

I think if your pullet doesn't do well, I would certainly send her for a necropsy to be sure of what she has.

AND the worst part of all the chicks I've vaccinated was that they did well, then 4 died from coccidiosis, 3 died from some infection which caused swelling on one eye. One got taken by a hawk. Not a good year this year. I still have 17 vaccinated chickens who look good, and 19 who are older and survived everything.

 

[LakeBird]

I raised the chicks in a plastic tote in the basement until they outgrew it (about 6 weeks) Then we put them in a tractor outside. So yes they were on the ground at about 6 weeks.

Is it difficult to vaccinate for marek's? Is it something I can do myself? I'll try the mush with my next set of chicks. I am also going to try the mush on this bird too. I think she could eat more.

Thank you for the towel idea. I rolled up an old kitchen town and set it under her front. She spent the morning "flexing" one of her legs, like a windshield wiper...you can see she has pushed the shavings away from her.

 

[seminolewind]

It's not difficult to give the vaccine. It just has to be kept cold till you use it, and used within an hour. It could help if someone holds the chick.

 

[Mainechick168]

Thankful for this thread!

I've got a buff orpington inside right now, who I believe may have Mareks, although she is a little older than what the info gives as typical age to get this- she is just about 7 months old. 3 days ago I noticed her walking kind of funny, shaking her head a bit, and having a hard time keeping up with the rest of the flock. Then she would just sit... I bought her inside, and she has not gotten any better, she is way more off balance, she falls down sometimes. She has not layed an egg since the symptoms started, feels lighter in weight, and has been havin some green poo.

I have been closely monitoring the rest of the flock, and everyone else seems to be fine. I have some questions about this though- what are the chances the rest of my chickens will get sick?? I am also wondering if I should eventually put my poor buff out of her misery, or should I wait longer to see if anything improves??