Is it moral to eat meat? ***Constructive Discussion ONLY***

[hensdeliverthegoods]

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Again the act of eating the meat is neither moral or immoral neither ethical or unethical. My eating the meat in no way injured the animal. Any injury occurred before I ate it.

Was that injury, the events prior to, leading to and part of the animals death conscionable and justifiable?

Oops... only compromises have to be justified.

I don't understand what you meant here, RoostersCrow - could you explain?

And even though I eat meat, I applaud this statement by VeganChick -

"On top of the food chain - you set the rules....

200 years ago that was said about slavery - 150 years ago women and children were the choice under-dog.... I wouldn't not agree that just because something has been - that it is not in need of re-thinking - that's progress...."

Although I believe women and children are still under-dogs...

 

[VeganChick]

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And my story is the exact opposite - when I was eating meat and dairy I was constantly sick - (also had a terrible time with menopausal hot flashes) - When I eliminated meat from my diet I started to feel well again - no colds or flu or sickness in 5 years - My omnivore friends are sick every few months. Also, when I went Vegan my hot flashes all but disappeared. I was consuming the female hormones from cows and it reeked havoc!

My bodily aches and joint pain also went away. What I learned was that calcium is better absorbed when ingested as plant-based food: Plenty of research has been done to conclude that

"Women who ate most of their protein from animal sources had three times the rate of bone loss and 3.7 times the rate of hip fractures of women who ate most of their protein from vegetable sources."

http://www.notmilk.com/calbones.html

ilovemychickies:

God gave us the animals for us to eat.

We're not debating the existence of God here. Let's leave her out of it. - MOD

Essene Gospel of Peace - if you are going to quote a "god-like mandate to kill (or not kill) animals" says: "But I do say to you: Kill neither men, nor beasts, nor yet the food which goes into your mouth. For if you eat living food, the same will quicken you, but if you kill your food, the dead food will kill you also. For life comes only from life, and from death comes always death. For everything which kills your foods, kills your bodies also. And everything which kills your bodies kills your souls also." Also, the King James version: "Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed and fruit yielding tree - for you it shall be meat".

Guitarist:

just so long as I still get to maintain my rights to eat meat I love a good steak, or bacon mmmmm

To do something simply because "it feels good" might be considered "gluttonous" or irresponsible. If we are taking lives of innocent beings - certainly don't we have to have more justification than "taste"?

Also, "your right?" - could we not say this of a time when negros were enslaved? It was their "right" then - but progress and enlightment refines what "rights" are and aren't. Certainly a rapist or pedophile might think it a "right" to abuse and torture - Society has now advanced to a point where it becomes less clear to have "some" animals as pets and friends - and other equally loveable, innocent and intelligent animals as "food". These inconsistancies manifest themselves and demand closer evaluation.

Many countries eat horse (here they are on the cusp of being "pets") - Asian countries (to our horror) eat dogs & cats.... Africans eat primates..... When it's a "necessity" to survival, I see validation - When it's because "it tastes good" - sounds beneath man's capacity for justice and just isn't acceptable in my ethics or values.​

 

[Guitartists]

I think he's saying... the real question here is....

Is it moral to KILL animals?

Eating the meat is the aftermath of it all. No harm from eating meat, other than the death of the animal in question. Therefore... is it right to kill an animal to eat it? Which is interesting.... if an animal dies of natural causes... say, beached whale... can we eat that? Even if we are morally opposed to killing to secure meat?

 

[VeganChick]

hensdeliverthegoods.....

Although I believe women and children are still under-dogs...

Agreed

But at least it's recognized by civilized societies that it is an injustice - that's a start to necessary and lasting change....

 

[Guitartists]

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Indeed... and I have thought of this myself. But I do not hold it against the hawk for killing and eating the chicken or the wolf for eating the elk..... I do not hold it against myself for eating meat, and I only rarely eat bacon or steak... even though I do enjoy eating them. Forgot to say... I chose bacon over chops and steak over burger when I can... like once every 5 months or so on the steak and we have bacon like twice a month for breakfast or for BLTS. I don't eat meat just because I enjoy the taste of it.... I eat meat because it is nutritious (yeah, this can be debated on the homegrown/processed level), filling and a food group

I sometimes am alotted the ability and budget to chose my cut of meat based on taste

But, we are not talking about the same animal...... chickens are not human. I believe that all HUMANS have equal rights. We should, we are all of the same species. However, I do not believe that an animal is entitled to the SAME rights as humans. Actually it would be impossible to impose humanity onto animals as they are not human and function as animals. Example.... animals will rape each other, roos mating roos to death and male seals raping young pups, often to the point of death. But I would never impose my human morality onto the animal world. They do not chose to live by our codes or ethics or religion. No amount of giving them human quality rights will make them human. I agree that violence and neglect towards animals is unconscionable and I look forward to a day when I can raise at least some if not all of the meat my family eats. Of course, there will always be those animals that are pets.... and I wouldn't want to eat a pet.

I'm always reminded of that scene from , I think it was Call of the Wild... where his hands are freezing and he imagines killing the dog in order to warm his hands in it's insides. I don't know why I always think of that when these animal rights conversations are sparked... but there it is.

 

[fullhouse]

I became a vegetarian after my first child was born, and was one for several years. Problem is, I am allergic to nuts and soy. Anyhow, I basically subsisted on a low fat/protein diet and my health was affected. So, I eat meat(and don't waste anything), my eggs, and local milk in glass bottles from a farm I have been to. My issues resolved. I like meat, but I eat it with understanding and purpose.

I chose to eat meat because I don't feel I can get a healthy diet as an nut/soy allergic vegan. I tried for years, it didn't work for me.

 

[Barnyard Dawg]

If we didn't harvest animals may they be wild or domestic how would we control their populations? Over population could cause disease, starvation, or would we sterilize them all like the govement wants us to do with our pets. This is not the 1800's when land was plentful, man is destroying the world with all of our advances and the population explosion and the need to feed everyone. Each to their own.

 

[Wolf-Kim]

I agree any kind of killing involves some pain or suffering. I also think this is life in general though. You cannot tell me a chicken raised purely as a pet never experience fear, anxiouty, or pain. It is life. The objective of homegrown or ethically raised meats is to not cause the animals any more pain than necessary. I am only 19 and I can think of many many experiences in the past that I was worried, anxious, or fearful.

It is why we as humans use mercy-killing. Euthanizing or shooting an animal that is suffering, thrashing upon the ground. Believe me I had a firsthand experience just a couple months ago when our three year old colt colicked and wasn't found until it was too late. We found him late the next morning, covered in sweat and thrashing upon the ground. With two people pulling and one behind waving a whip, he would go down. He actually had a seizure and I turned to Adam(future DH) and told him to go grab the gun because the vet wouldn't be there for another 2 or 3 hours. The horse died before Adam could get back from the house and the only thing I regret it not being there to relieve his suffering earlier.

Life in itself can be cruel, but we as intelligent being ought to know that we can avoid and prevent much of this in our animals. The animals need not suffer anymore in their dying than they do it life. When I butchered my first rooster he intitially panicked when we tried to position him on the stump. I picked him upright and held him until he was calm and then did the deed.


I do not think it cowardice to have a professional slaughter your cattle, as long as you know they do it humanely as possible. It is probably better this way because it is a professional and not someone struggling with emotional issues while trying to dispatch an animal. I would much rather have a professional do the job, if I thought my emotions would get in the way of me doing it right myself. I think the cowardice statement was ill-interpreted. I believe they meant just acknowledge that the animals are being killed. Do not fool yourself by making yourself believe the animals were shipped off and then someone coincidentally shipped you back some steak. LOL I know people who do this too.

I think butchering yourself really makes you think about whether you really need it or not. *shrugs* At the grocery store it is just too easy to throw a ton of meat into the cart and not think twice, but when you have to do the deed yourself, it really puts it into perspective.

-Kim

 

[fullhouse]

Here hunting is illegal. We have a ton of deer. They have started to get hit by cars and even private planes. I really think until a person dies, the population will be allowed to expand.

 

[warcard]

We're meat eaters. I don't like what I see in commercial farming, but until I can raise my own, I just try and limit consumption. For red meat we have switched mostly to venison, which we hunt, kill, dress and process ourself. I deplore people who only hunt for trophy, it gives all hunters a bad reputation, even though I believe most hunters hunt for the meat and the trophy is a side product, if I ever got a huge buck you can bet I would mount the antlers on the wall

For those who say we can get all our protein from plants, just like cows or other grazers, you need to remember that herbiavores (sp?) are built differently. Whether God did it or nature, the human body is built to receive protein from animal sources.

Personally, I don't care what you eat and why, just don't try and force your views on me. Discussions like this are great, but after awhile we have to agree to disagree, and that is why it is great to live in a free country (insert America, Canada, UK, Australia, etc.)

P.S. I have eaten a grasshopper, but could I do a cockroach (SE Asia) heck no! A dog (Korea & China), no way! Boiled Cabbage (Western Europe) eewww! (OK so its not meat

, but still eewww!) To each culture its own and who are we to judge what is right, if there is a higher power(s) It will decide in the end.