Is there no coming back from this besides going to the vet? Is my other option to put her down?

[citychicks99]

Pictures would be really helpful.
I'm going to give you a link to a thread where I explain how I treat really bad bumblefoot infection, it has saved a couple of my birds.
It's inexpensive and easy to get, you probably already have the needed stuff.
See post #8 here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bumblefoot-not-healing.1443809/

Just curious how does the white sugar help? It made me nervous to put that on a wound. Did you use just regular over the counter white sugar? Did you have to isolate your roo the entire time during treatment?

Here's what her foot currently looks like. Also tagging @Eggcessive @SnackMeat and @chickengr

 

[coach723]

The link I gave you has a video on sugardine, and why it's used. Yes, plain white sugar from the store. This is from another source:
"Sugardine works by combining the antimicrobial and antiseptic properties of povidone-iodine (Betadine) with the moisture-absorbing and tissue-nourishing qualities of sugar, creating a paste that draws out impurities, reduces bacteria, and supports the body's natural healing processes. The high sugar concentration prevents bacteria from growing by absorbing water, while the iodine acts as a broad-spectrum disinfectant. This dual action creates a poultice-like effect that cleans the wound and promotes rapid healing of tissues. "
More here:
https://trueprepper.com/sugardine-make-emergency-antiseptic/

And this article:
https://www.americanfarriers.com/ar...-mess-that-works-when-treating-wound-injuries

Seeing the pictures, I would apply a paste of the sugardine over that, getting it in if possible, if not just cover it with a thick layer of the paste. and wrap the foot. Do that daily, and let the foot rest some and see if swelling comes down. After a few days to a week, reassess how it looks. If you have hydro colloidal bandages, those work really well with this, I use Duoderm (again talked about in the link I gave you before), this keeps the paste in and keeps the wound from drying out. I get them on Amazon, they are 4" square, and I cut them to the size needed, you can get a lot out of a box.

 

[SnackMeat]

Another thing you can try is sterilizing a needle, and then sticking it into the pus pocket and sort of dragging it through the pus. Obviously if it's too solid it won't work, but you might be able to break it up into smaller pieces (think of how blue cheese crumbles.) then you might be more easily able to gently squeeze some of the pus out. I do find (have only done it twice) that the pus or just at the edge of the pus, the bird doesn't have an issue. But they'll let me know when I'm hitting healthy tissue, but not in a big freak out way where I've been worried about stabbing them with an implement. More like a slight foot jerk and a drawn out unhappy bird sound.

I have also seen videos of people taking tweezers and pushing them in to the pus kernel, grabbing and pulling outward. Not ideal but if you're worried about cutting it open more (cuticle nippers or small scissors would be good to just nip the edges to widen it to allow the solid pus to more easily pass outward) that could possibly work for some, or if you're lucky, the whole kernal.

 

[coach723]

When the pus is adhered to tissue, and really hard to get out, I find that a small curette works well and does less damage to healthy tissue. Like a tiny spoon, the edges are thin but not sharp. I got one on amazon.

 

[citychicks99]

The link I gave you has a video on sugardine, and why it's used. Yes, plain white sugar from the store. This is from another source:
"Sugardine works by combining the antimicrobial and antiseptic properties of povidone-iodine (Betadine) with the moisture-absorbing and tissue-nourishing qualities of sugar, creating a paste that draws out impurities, reduces bacteria, and supports the body's natural healing processes. The high sugar concentration prevents bacteria from growing by absorbing water, while the iodine acts as a broad-spectrum disinfectant. This dual action creates a poultice-like effect that cleans the wound and promotes rapid healing of tissues. "
More here:
https://trueprepper.com/sugardine-make-emergency-antiseptic/

And this article:
https://www.americanfarriers.com/ar...-mess-that-works-when-treating-wound-injuries

Seeing the pictures, I would apply a paste of the sugardine over that, getting it in if possible, if not just cover it with a thick layer of the paste. and wrap the foot. Do that daily, and let the foot rest some and see if swelling comes down. After a few days to a week, reassess how it looks. If you have hydro colloidal bandages, those work really well with this, I use Duoderm (again talked about in the link I gave you before), this keeps the paste in and keeps the wound from drying out. I get them on Amazon, they are 4" square, and I cut them to the size needed, you can get a lot out of a box.

Thanks for your help. Here's my plan to make sure I didn't miss anything.

-Daily foot soaks at night with warm water and Epsom salt for 20 minutes until tricide-neo gets here next week. Then it'll be 7 minutes in that solution. Can tricide neo be used with sugardine though? A quick Google search is telling me no..
-Change wrap nightly. Spray feet with Vetericyn first. Let it dry then apply a paste of sugardine and cover with hydrocolloid dressing for bottom of foot. Apply Neosporin to top of foot and other cracked areas. Place gauze over top of foot.. should I also place that over the hydrocolloid dressing before rewrapping? Place a baby sock over her foot and apply duck tape to bottom of foot to try and keep the foot clean.
-Continue with Amoxicillin for not sure how long or if I should switch to doxycycline? It'll be day 10 by Sunday.
-Continue to isolate her and keep her in a dog cage with clean bedding of puppy pads and paper towels, changing them throughout the day as needed
-Continue supplementing her with poultry cell and egg yolk twice a day
-Try to be patient and give it 2 weeks to reassess before I freak out

I think I'm really bad with invasive methods like trying to dig it out. There's been so much blood and my instinct is to cover it up, not keep digging.

 

[citychicks99]

Another thing you can try is sterilizing a needle, and then sticking it into the pus pocket and sort of dragging it through the pus. Obviously if it's too solid it won't work, but you might be able to break it up into smaller pieces (think of how blue cheese crumbles.) then you might be more easily able to gently squeeze some of the pus out. I do find (have only done it twice) that the pus or just at the edge of the pus, the bird doesn't have an issue. But they'll let me know when I'm hitting healthy tissue, but not in a big freak out way where I've been worried about stabbing them with an implement. More like a slight foot jerk and a drawn out unhappy bird sound.

I have also seen videos of people taking tweezers and pushing them in to the pus kernel, grabbing and pulling outward. Not ideal but if you're worried about cutting it open more (cuticle nippers or small scissors would be good to just nip the edges to widen it to allow the solid pus to more easily pass outward) that could possibly work for some, or if you're lucky, the whole kernal.

I can try the needle method but maybe I'll wait until next week to avoid pushing out any more blood. I tried squeezing it yesterday and she started bleeding again and I tend to freak out if there's too much blood.

 

[muscovylove]

Thanks for your help. Here's my plan to make sure I didn't miss anything.

-Daily foot soaks at night with warm water and Epsom salt for 20 minutes until tricide-neo gets here next week. Then it'll be 7 minutes in that solution. Can tricide neo be used with sugardine though? A quick Google search is telling me no..
-Change wrap nightly. Spray feet with Vetericyn first. Let it dry then apply a paste of sugardine and cover with hydrocolloid dressing for bottom of foot. Apply Neosporin to top of foot and other cracked areas. Place gauze over top of foot.. should I also place that over the hydrocolloid dressing before rewrapping? Place a baby sock over her foot and apply duck tape to bottom of foot to try and keep the foot clean.
-Continue with Amoxicillin for not sure how long or if I should switch to doxycycline? It'll be day 10 by Sunday.
-Continue to isolate her and keep her in a dog cage with clean bedding of puppy pads and paper towels, changing them throughout the day as needed
-Continue supplementing her with poultry cell and egg yolk twice a day
-Try to be patient and give it 2 weeks to reassess before I freak out

I think I'm really bad with invasive methods like trying to dig it out. There's been so much blood and my instinct is to cover it up, not keep digging.

Hi there, I'm in a similar situation with my hen. I'm super appreciative of @coach723 and their advice as well! I'm about to start the sugardine. I'm on day 13 of amoxicillin and I'm not sure if it's helped at all, I'm tempted to go off of it. I have hydrocolloid tape which I don't think works well with an open wound but I'm going to buy the bandages. What I'm learning is that this is going to be a long process and as long as my hen is eating, drinking and giving my cat grief I'm willing to do what I can. Good luck to you and I'll be watching for progress!!

 

[citychicks99]

Hi there, I'm in a similar situation with my hen. I'm super appreciative of @coach723 and their advice as well! I'm about to start the sugardine. I'm on day 13 of amoxicillin and I'm not sure if it's helped at all, I'm tempted to go off of it. I have hydrocolloid tape which I don't think works well with an open wound but I'm going to buy the bandages. What I'm learning is that this is going to be a long process and as long as my hen is eating, drinking and giving my cat grief I'm willing to do what I can. Good luck to you and I'll be watching for progress!!

Yes, this is definitely testing my patience. I've been treating this infection for almost two weeks but it feels like forever.

Thank you! Good luck to you as well!

 

[coach723]

I prefer vet wrap or co wrap, rather than duct tape. The tape is really hard to get off, and sticky, and the co wrap works really well, adheres to itself rather than anything else, and stretches. I use the co wrap at tractor supply in the horse section, it's 4" wide and you can cut strips the width and length you need, so a roll goes a long way. It does a very good job of keeping the foot clean and dry. If you use a hydrocolloid bandage there is no need for gauze, the dressing seals itself, it will stick to the edges but not to the wound itself. What ever you wrap with, make sure it's not too tight, just tight enough to hold everything in place.
I've not found tricide neo to be very effective on deep or large bumblefoot cases, just my experience. It worked for some early, shallow, very small lesions. Likewise amoxicillin. That may help with secondary infection, from digging around, but I've not found it very helpful in clearing up the actual bumblefoot itself, which is usually staph. I did do a long term treatment with a combination of SMZ-TMP and clindamycin for suspected osteomylitis in my roo. I did not have the advantage of an xray, so this was just based on what I was seeing. That required close attention and tweaking the dosing to not fry his kidneys and liver. He lived for years afterward and was fine til dying of old age. For tricide vs sugardine, my choice would be sugardine just based on my own experience. If you want to try the tricide, then I would do that on it's own, see if it helps or not. If it doesn't, then stop that and try the sugardine. Your choice. The tricide is also not a 'quick' fix, and I found the daily soakings to be too time consuming with everything else I have going on. For me the cleaning, sugardine, and rewrapping was just easier to work into my day consistently. But, do what works for you. Sadly, bumblefoot, especially when it gets large and deep, can be a longer process to get healed. Patience and persistence pays off.

 

[citychicks99]

I prefer vet wrap or co wrap, rather than duct tape. The tape is really hard to get off, and sticky, and the co wrap works really well, adheres to itself rather than anything else, and stretches. I use the co wrap at tractor supply in the horse section, it's 4" wide and you can cut strips the width and length you need, so a roll goes a long way. It does a very good job of keeping the foot clean and dry. If you use a hydrocolloid bandage there is no need for gauze, the dressing seals itself, it will stick to the edges but not to the wound itself. What ever you wrap with, make sure it's not too tight, just tight enough to hold everything in place.
I've not found tricide neo to be very effective on deep or large bumblefoot cases, just my experience. It worked for some early, shallow, very small lesions. Likewise amoxicillin. That may help with secondary infection, from digging around, but I've not found it very helpful in clearing up the actual bumblefoot itself, which is usually staph. I did do a long term treatment with a combination of SMZ-TMP and clindamycin for suspected osteomylitis in my roo. I did not have the advantage of an xray, so this was just based on what I was seeing. That required close attention and tweaking the dosing to not fry his kidneys and liver. He lived for years afterward and was fine til dying of old age. For tricide vs sugardine, my choice would be sugardine just based on my own experience. If you want to try the tricide, then I would do that on it's own, see if it helps or not. If it doesn't, then stop that and try the sugardine. Your choice. The tricide is also not a 'quick' fix, and I found the daily soakings to be too time consuming with everything else I have going on. For me the cleaning, sugardine, and rewrapping was just easier to work into my day consistently. But, do what works for you. Sadly, bumblefoot, especially when it gets large and deep, can be a longer process to get healed. Patience and persistence pays off.

I meant that I would use the duck tape on the baby sock to prevent poop from getting inside the baby sock. But I would use vetwrap for the foot itself.

I actually hate soaking and would prefer not to do it. How do you clean the foot without soaking?

I think the amoxicillin did help a bit with swelling and the bump on her leg from last week. It also cleared some pus on her leg. It was probably a secondary infection.

Here's a before and after for reference. Unfortunately, it didn't do much for the actual Bumblefoot like you said.