Is This a Good Idea?

[3KillerBs]

When I split the coop to separate the Blues from the mixed flock, which I hope to do soon even if I end up using plastic netting, would it be a good idea to put a couple of the mature hens in with the chosen cockerel and his hatchmates to help him learn manners?

I thought I might add the Brahma (who, so far, won't squat for either Ludwig or me), one of the adult Blue Australorps, and 1-2 of the Splits -- but only collect the Blue Australorp eggs for hatching.

So -- 3-4 adult hens and 5-6 of his age peers?

I've read so much about the problems of having a cockerel with only his age-peers so I wondered if putting a couple of my more dominant girls in would be good for him.

Thoughts?

 

[Mrs. K]

Who has he been with so far?

 

[3KillerBs]

Who has he been with so far?

The entire flock is together with the adult hens, the laying pullets, the young ones, and the senior cockerel.

 

[aart]

Worth a try, can always take them out if it doesn't work well.

 

[NatJ]

I've read so much about the problems of having a cockerel with only his age-peers so I wondered if putting a couple of my more dominant girls in would be good for him.

If the pullets are already mature enough to lay eggs, I would expect less problems (as compared with when he wants to mate, and they are too young).

Putting in some older hens should be fine too, unless they bully the cockerel enough to interfere with him eating, or with him mating the pullets you want fertile eggs from.

I thought I might add ... but only collect the Blue Australorp eggs for hatching.

Just make sure you can easily tell the eggs apart

 

[3KillerBs]

Just make sure you can easily tell the eggs apart

That's why I was thinking the Brahma and one or two of the Splits. The Brahma lays small, weirdly-round eggs (why I'm not breeding her), and the Splits' eggs are pinkish rather than Australorp brown.

If the pullets are already mature enough to lay eggs, I would expect less problems (as compared with when he wants to mate, and they are too young).

The boys are definitely more mature at this time -- 15 weeks. One approached the 7-month Langshan girl and she gave him what-for. Another tried to mate an unwilling age-peer and Ludwig disciplined him.

I was hoping that including a few of the laying hens in the group would keep the young cockerel in line.

 

[NatJ]

The boys are definitely more mature at this time

Got it. I'd lost track of how old they were, and how mature the pullets were at present.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You know my thoughts on shoehorning chickens into tight spaces. That can magnify any bad behaviors and create bad behaviors if none exist. I can't remember how much room you have and what it looks like. Something to consider if you haven't.

I was hoping that including a few of the laying hens in the group would keep the young cockerel in line.

Correct me if I am wrong. The way I understand it you want to put one 15-week-old cockerel in a separate pen with some pullets (probably the same age) so when you are ready to collect eggs for hatching you know the bloodlines. Your question is whether there is a benefit to putting a couple of mature hens in with the cockerel and the pullets in the hope the mature hens will beat the crap out of him. If that happens, would that improve his manners? Many respected people on this forum (many I believe to be female, but this is mostly a women's forum) think so.

I've read so much about the problems of having a cockerel with only his age-peers so I wondered if putting a couple of my more dominant girls in would be good for him.

I've read about some of the problems you might possibly have with an immature cockerel and a flock of immature pullets. I've seen some of those sometimes. I often paraphrase Sumi when she said watching immature cockerels and pullets go through puberty is often not for the faint of heart. I use weasel works like might, possibly, sometimes, and often because I don't believe any behavior is guaranteed.

I've never had a pullet injured by an amorous cockerel. I've seen a lot of forced matings but never an injury. Every three or four years I isolate some cockerels from the flock but that's more to stop the cockerels from harassing the mature hens The mature hens run to the dominant rooster for him to take care of them. Some are so rowdy it drives the dominant rooster batty. It's more for his benefit than the mature hens or immature pullets that I isolate them. Or sometimes the boys are fighting among themselves so much I put them in a bachelor pad with no girls to fight over until I get them to butcher age.

With just an immature cockerel and pullets (no adults) things can get pretty rough between them. But that is not guaranteed. And what constitutes "rough" can be in the eye of the beholder. I remember a woman from many years back that grabbed her shotgun and blew away a mature rooster because he was "raping her hens". From what I read I didn't think the rooster was anything wrong but she sure did.

In your scenario I could see different ways it could play out. Of course, the more room the better. It's possible that the immature cockerel and pullets form a separate sub-flock and avoid the mature hens. There is no real interaction. The relations between the cockerel and pullets could get rough as he asserts his dominance or it could go really smoothly. I've seen both. Eventually he would mature enough to try to dominate the mature hens. That could get rough or go smoothly.

Especially if space is tight those hens may be really rough on the cockerel or pullets. By isolating them you are going to disrupt the pecking order. They may have to reset that. Probably not a big deal but it might get violent.

The dominant hen could object to him mating the pullets, whether the pullets object or not. She'll knock him off when he tried. He typically runs away when that happens until he matures enough to stand up to her and dominate her. I haven't seen this often but it's been one of the most violent times where the cockerel takes over. That dominant hen can have a couple of very bad days.

That cockerel could try to mate the mature hens, will at some point. They might run away from him. He probably will chase, they might get away or he might force them to mate. They do not fight him they just try to get away.

Or they might fight him instead of running away. This could be any mature hen but often is just the most dominant one or two. He's just not mature enough to win. Sometimes they only fight when he tries something but sometimes the hen will attack him out of the blue. If he even gets close to the flock she attacks him, sometimes quite brutally.

I'm not convinced that this brutality schools him or teaches him manners. I think his basic personality and the girl's personalities have more to do with how they turn out than whether he gets brutalized as an immature cockerel. Does it teach those pullets manners if a cockerel is brutal to them?

You asked for thoughts, well these are mine. There are a lot of people on here that you and I both respect that will disagree with me.

Another of my thought. While a dominant hen that refuses to accept the dominance of any rooster can make life hard for any rooster and maybe disrupt a flock, most of the problems with rough or brutal roosters are because the rooster does not have that strong of a spirit. He just doesn't have the self-confidence and swagger to truly dominate by personality, even when mature.

What do I think you should do? Try it. Let us know what happens in your set-up and with your individual chickens. It's always interesting to hear what actually happens. Not that I'm going to change my opinion, it's just one of the things that could have happened.

 

[3KillerBs]

@Ridgerunner, Thank you for the long post. I highly respect your opinions.

You know my thoughts on shoehorning chickens into tight spaces. That can magnify any bad behaviors and create bad behaviors if none exist. I can't remember how much room you have and what it looks like. Something to consider if you haven't.

My coop is 16x16 and I was planning to put a temporary divider across the middle with a second poultry-net setup for a runon that side. So, 8x16 plus the run.

I want to use the Black Lanshan to make some sexlinks with the FCM and Dominique girls and a few Black Langshans with his hatchmate breed-sister.

But I also want to have some pure-line Blue Australorps and one of the adult hens I want to put in is the best Australorp I have so I want very much to breed her.

The others are chosen as ones that I don't want to breed and whose eggs I can tell apart.

The hen that won't squat for anything isn't a bully -- she never harassed any of the young ones and doesn't try to beat up the Langshan.

 

[Sally PB]

Following to see how it goes.