Is this feed recipe healthy?

[U_Stormcrow]

Virtually all of the stuff I had listen above apart from the meal worms, I was sort of planning to do away with them.
Also the lentils, I was hoping for some sort of substitute instead.

the problem being, you can't make a healthy feed with those things.

Corn is a high energy, low nutrient source. In terms of its Amino acid balance, its across the board pretty much evenly deficient, because its crude protein is very much sub par - likely the lowest of any ingredient that isn't a rock (calcium, salt, etc), a metal, or a vitamin

You've not specified hard or soft wheat. Most raise soft wheat. Soft wheat is below the recommended protein level, and isn't a great source of key aminos. Oats provide even less crude protein than soft wheat. They are a better source of lysine, provide less energy (sometimes, that's a good thing), but can be a concerning cource of anti-nutritive factors, like beta-glucans. They are otherwise roughly equal to soft wheat in Met, Thre, Tryp (marginally lower first and last, marginially higher mid).

Lentils should be heat treated to reduce anti nutritive properties. You might also benefit from sprouting then drying and grinding. They are your best crude protein source, but all the negatives mean that inclusion rates over 20% result in performance issues (according to the research). Great source of Lysine and Threonine. Adequate source of Tryp. Low Methionine. Peas look a lot like Lentils, nutritionally. There are some things you can do to control antinutritive properties (like tannins) in your pea selection, but you are still left with a source low in Met.

Met. is the 1st most critical limiting amino acid in any chicken diet. None of your ingredients is a good Met source. You have grains and pulses (and whatever we are calling corn). That's to be expected. You need a high protein animal, fish, or insect source of Met. Or, a plant source, like one of the better legumes or seeds. Unfortunately, those are pretty uniformly high fat - processing to remove that fat is what's needed to start balancing that ration (typically, soy meal here in the US).

and you still need a vitamin mineral source to start to cover all the things I haven't begun to talk about above - something like this.

and if you are raising new birds on it, their nutritional needs are higher than that of adult layers - so putting together a feed that's only as good as your current organic layer still pretty much guarantees substandard chickens.

Which is just the beginniing of why I don't do it myself with my acres.

[sorry spelling errors - not important to me to edit]

 

[higuy1375]

the problem being, you can't make a healthy feed with those things.

Corn is a high energy, low nutrient source. In terms of its Amino acid balance, its across the board pretty much evenly deficient, because its crude protein is very much sub par - likely the lowest of any ingredient that isn't a rock (calcium, salt, etc), a metal, or a vitamin

You've not specified hard or soft wheat. Most raise soft wheat. Soft wheat is below the recommended protein level, and isn't a great source of key aminos. Oats provide even less crude protein than soft wheat. They are a better source of lysine, provide less energy (sometimes, that's a good thing), but can be a concerning cource of anti-nutritive factors, like beta-glucans. They are otherwise roughly equal to soft wheat in Met, Thre, Tryp (marginally lower first and last, marginially higher mid).

Lentils should be heat treated to reduce anti nutritive properties. You might also benefit from sprouting then drying and grinding. They are your best crude protein source, but all the negatives mean that inclusion rates over 20% result in performance issues (according to the research). Great source of Lysine and Threonine. Adequate source of Tryp. Low Methionine. Peas look a lot like Lentils, nutritionally. There are some things you can do to control antinutritive properties (like tannins) in your pea selection, but you are still left with a source low in Met.

Met. is the 1st most critical limiting amino acid in any chicken diet. None of your ingredients is a good Met source. You have grains and pulses (and whatever we are calling corn). That's to be expected. You need a high protein animal, fish, or insect source of Met. Or, a plant source, like one of the better legumes or seeds. Unfortunately, those are pretty uniformly high fat - processing to remove that fat is what's needed to start balancing that ration (typically, soy meal here in the US).

and you still need a vitamin mineral source to start to cover all the things I haven't begun to talk about above - something like this.

and if you are raising new birds on it, their nutritional needs are higher than that of adult layers - so putting together a feed that's only as good as your current organic layer still pretty much guarantees substandard chickens.

Which is just the beginniing of why I don't do it myself with my acres.

[sorry spelling errors - not important to me to edit]

Yea I understand,

I wasnt planning to raise the chicks on the feed, I was going to buy starter feed for that

I was planning to do winter wheat which is hard, or I can do trinicale which is rye and wheat,

I think I prefer to stray away from lentils if I can

Wouldnt wheat, rye, and corn be in the carbs category though? What should I do to supplement for that?

The other thing is with animal bi-products, you cant have them with an organic production and I'd like to be certified one day. And im just not that much of a fan of fishmeal. Ive had history with it and i didnt like the way my eggs tasted after.

What legume or seeds do you reccomend for the met source?

 

[higuy1375]

the problem being, you can't make a healthy feed with those things.

Corn is a high energy, low nutrient source. In terms of its Amino acid balance, its across the board pretty much evenly deficient, because its crude protein is very much sub par - likely the lowest of any ingredient that isn't a rock (calcium, salt, etc), a metal, or a vitamin

You've not specified hard or soft wheat. Most raise soft wheat. Soft wheat is below the recommended protein level, and isn't a great source of key aminos. Oats provide even less crude protein than soft wheat. They are a better source of lysine, provide less energy (sometimes, that's a good thing), but can be a concerning cource of anti-nutritive factors, like beta-glucans. They are otherwise roughly equal to soft wheat in Met, Thre, Tryp (marginally lower first and last, marginially higher mid).

Lentils should be heat treated to reduce anti nutritive properties. You might also benefit from sprouting then drying and grinding. They are your best crude protein source, but all the negatives mean that inclusion rates over 20% result in performance issues (according to the research). Great source of Lysine and Threonine. Adequate source of Tryp. Low Methionine. Peas look a lot like Lentils, nutritionally. There are some things you can do to control antinutritive properties (like tannins) in your pea selection, but you are still left with a source low in Met.

Met. is the 1st most critical limiting amino acid in any chicken diet. None of your ingredients is a good Met source. You have grains and pulses (and whatever we are calling corn). That's to be expected. You need a high protein animal, fish, or insect source of Met. Or, a plant source, like one of the better legumes or seeds. Unfortunately, those are pretty uniformly high fat - processing to remove that fat is what's needed to start balancing that ration (typically, soy meal here in the US).

and you still need a vitamin mineral source to start to cover all the things I haven't begun to talk about above - something like this.

and if you are raising new birds on it, their nutritional needs are higher than that of adult layers - so putting together a feed that's only as good as your current organic layer still pretty much guarantees substandard chickens.

Which is just the beginniing of why I don't do it myself with my acres.

[sorry spelling errors - not important to me to edit]

the chickens will be free ranging 24/7 btw, the grain is more of a supplementary thing, the other 10 only freerange after noon

 

[higuy1375]

the chickens will be free ranging 24/7 btw, the grain is more of a supplementary thing, the other 10 only freerange after noon

• 49.7% corn
• 30.8% roasted soybeans
• 10.9% oats
• 5.0% feed grade limestone
• 3.0% Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
• 0.5% Thorvin brand kelp meal

This is another recipe I found online that seems like it can be a more viable option, what do you guys think? Would I be able to substitute the soybeans in for field peas or sunflower meal?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

• 49.7% corn
• 30.8% roasted soybeans
• 10.9% oats
• 5.0% feed grade limestone
• 3.0% Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
• 0.5% Thorvin brand kelp meal

This is another recipe I found online that seems like it can be a more viable option, what do you guys think? Would I be able to substitute the soybeans in for field peas or sunflower meal?

That's Joel Salatin's recipe. Its a good one. Though it works best with his system.

and No, you can't swap field peas for soybeans. Defatted Sunflower meal is closer. I'd have to look up how close.

 

[higuy1375]

That's Joel Salatin's recipe. Its a good one. Though it works best with his system.

No, you can't swap field peas for soybeans. Defatted Sunflower meal is closer. I'd have to look up how close.

what do you mean with his system?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

what do you mean with his system?

Strongly suggest you look up Joel Salatin. Most of his stuff is behind a paywall, but there is plenty freee to read on what he does, and why he does it.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

If you were bored, you could, I don't know, use the Search function in the upper right, keyword "Salatin" User "U_Stormcrow" see if I've said anything about it. Then take my name out of the mix - I'm just a hobbyist, see what others have said.

 

[higuy1375]

If you were bored, you could, I don't know, use the Search function in the upper right, keyword "Salatin" User "U_Stormcrow" see if I've said anything about it. Then take my name out of the mix - I'm just a hobbyist, see what others have said.

So from what I've gathered, he runs chicken tractors on pasture with his feed? Thats perfect because I was planning to run my chickens in a tractor but in my field to keep weeds down and keep most of the pests away, not in a pasture. Maybe if I do some sort of small greens cover crop inbetween my main crop would work similarly?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

...and there you are.

Yep. His feed, plus his tractors on his pasture, which is not a monoctulture. Like I said, most of his stuff is behind a paywall - he sells his books, his videos, his courses. No reason he shouoldn't profit from his labors. But lots of others have written about him and his methods. No reasons we shouldn't learn from them if they offer those opinions for free.

and finally, I know I've monopolized this thread. As I said above, I'm just a hobbyist. I've read a couple things, know where to find a few things more. BYC has actual experts on this stuff whom I've learned from. Don't take my word as gospel, no matter how confidently I seem to type.

Strongly believe in doing your own research.

and a final thought. Opinions are worth not more than what you paid for them, often less.