Is this normal rabbit poop

[mike1970]

freeze some water bottles make sure cap is on tight mine lay on the frozen bottle to help cool them selves. when it all melts I wipe it down and refreeze I have a few to cycle through

 

[Bunnylady]

High calcium and protein levels are usually blamed which is why high protein and high calcium legume (alfalfa)- based pellets are discouraged.

If you look at enough feed labels, you will see that the maximum calcium levels are nearly the same across the board, regardless of whether the feed is alfalfa or timothy based (between .75 and 1.25%). And likewise, you can find alfalfa-based pellets that are as low as 12% protein. Now, to me, 16% protein doesn't seem all that high - I had the odd experience that one of my very first mixed-breed pet rabbits ate his own fur if I fed him 14% or less; it was a great relief to me when Purina Complete went up to 16%, and I could stop buying their (more expensive) show formula! 2% doesn't seem like that much to me, but for that particular rabbit, it was the difference between "enough" and "not enough" protein in his diet.

Anyway, it seems to me that people who knock alfalfa-based feeds for being high in protein and calcium are basing their argument on "someone said;" when you actually look at the numbers, they are very nearly the same.

(Incidentally, the first item on the Sherwood feed ingredients list is - alfalfa hay.)

it's going to be 107 this week and I don't want her to get heat stroke

107 is awfully hot. If you can't take her in (and I agree that in-again, out-again is a stress in itself), anything you can do to cool the space she is in helps. As much shade as possible, fans, ice (I know someone who puts ceramic floor tiles in their freezer, and swaps them out as they warm up); I run a sprinkler on the roof of my rabbitry (evaporative cooling knocks the temperature down some, even with the humidity). You don't want the rabbit's fur to get wet and stay wet, but some people will moisten their bunnies' ears to help them cool off (but if you do this, be careful; you don't want to get water in the ear, nor do you want to add to the stress by squirting the rabbit and scaring it).

 

[Happy Novogens]

If you look at enough feed labels, you will see that the maximum calcium levels are nearly the same across the board, regardless of whether the feed is alfalfa or timothy based (between .75 and 1.25%). And likewise, you can find alfalfa-based pellets that are as low as 12% protein. Now, to me, 16% protein doesn't seem all that high - I had the odd experience that one of my very first mixed-breed pet rabbits ate his own fur if I fed him 14% or less; it was a great relief to me when Purina Complete went up to 16%, and I could stop buying their (more expensive) show formula! 2% doesn't seem like that much to me, but for that particular rabbit, it was the difference between "enough" and "not enough" protein in his diet.

Anyway, it seems to me that people who knock alfalfa-based feeds for being high in protein and calcium are basing their argument on "someone said;" when you actually look at the numbers, they are very nearly the same.

(Incidentally, the first item on the Sherwood feed ingredients list is - alfalfa hay.)

This from a horse site:
One of the biggest differences between alfalfa hay and grass hay is the protein content. On average, alfalfa hay has much higher levels of protein, ranging from 15% to 21% depending on when the alfalfa was cut.
Alfalfa hay typically has more calories per pound than grass hay, so if you are feeding your horse alfalfa hay, he may need to consume less hay to maintain his body weight. This difference is related to the fiber content of the hay; alfalfa hay is lower in fiber, while grass hay is higher in fiber which allows the horse to eat more hay without putting on extra weight.

For the most part, the numbers are not the same. The bulk of alfalfa pellets are about 16% and up protein while the bulk of timothy pellets are 14% or below. Of course you can find exceptions. But these figures are why the lower protein, timothy pellets have been recommended for indoor, fixed rabbits.

As I explained earlier, this is the reasoning behind encouraging timothy-based pellets -- to keep things in check.

However, I also explained that Sherwood has a different thought on the source of those problems common to house rabbits. He explains that the problem is not the alfalfa hay itself, which he actually recommends to be fed along with timothy (or other grass) hay.
He says it is the soy/grain by-products that is causing bladder sludge. That is why he does have alfalfa and timothy in his pellets -- but he does not have soy/grains in his pellets.

One can accept his conclusions that soy/grain by-products are the real problem and so switch to his brand, or one can accept vet suggestions that indoor, fixed rabbits reduce protein and animal fat intake by switching to limited, timothy-based pellets. Of course one can also reject it all and do whatever the heck one wants.
Here is the link explaining more about the "protein myth;"
https://rabbit.org/natural-nutrition-part-ii-pellets-and-veggies-2/

 

[Bunnylady]

protein and animal fat

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Who the heck is supposed to be putting animal fat in their rabbit feed? Every label I have seen specifically mentions that all the proteins and fats are plant sourced.

However much protein or fiber there might be in a particular batch of unprocessed hay, it is only one ingredient of many in a pelleted feed. The hay is tested so the nutrient content is known, and amounts of the various ingredients are adjusted so that the nutrient content of the end product won't vary much from bag to bag. So whatever the protein and fiber content of the alfalfa used may be, Purina's Fiber3, for example, will be 15% protein and 20% fiber, bag after bag, as the label states.

The author of your link seems to be making a number of assumptions that aren't valid. This is the feeding recommendation from a typical, complete feed:

DAILY FEEDING AMOUNT*
Small Breed (2–3 lbs) 2–3 oz per day
Large Breed (6–10 lbs) 4–10 oz per day
Medium Breed (3–6 lbs) 3–7 oz per day
Giant Breed (10+ lbs) 6–12+ oz per day

*Control feed rabbits during first three months of life to avoid digestive upsets. Adult pet rabbits tend to overeat and lose body condition by becoming too heavy. Therefore, adjust the feeding rate to maintain a desired weight. Does will need more food (even full feed if her litter is large) to maintain body condition during lactation. Check weight and body condition of rabbits regularly.

Actually, a lot of my rabbits don't even eat this much. They pretty much self-regulate to a healthy weight, and I have to make sure not to give them more than they will eat in a day or it gets moldy from the humidity.

Most feeds aren't "performance" feeds for intensive breeding programs, indeed, most clearly state on the bag that they are intended for all phases of the animal's life, and are to be fed to mature animals in quantities only sufficient to maintain appropriate condition. Most people who are working anything other than strictly commercial operations do not have rabbits that are "bred as often as possible, and are nursing most of the time." Particularly with small breeds, two or three litters a year are the most one would try to get from a doe. Young rabbits that gain weight too fast are at risk, not only for digestive upsets, but for skeletal deformities, so feeds have to be formulated and fed for moderate, healthy rates of gain, not just as fast as possible. Inferring that anything other than a house rabbit 'lives fast and dies young' (to use an old expression) is simply not accurate, and where is the intimation that the feed companies neither know nor care about keeping a rabbit in good health beyond its youth coming from? My experience has been that most rabbits live 6 to 12 years, neutered or not, whether housed inside or outside, as long as the owner is reasonably diligent about their care (even a fair percentage of my unaltered does make it to 6 years of age, though they have most likely been effectively sterile for at least 2 years by that time).

16% protein translates into a grand total of 2 extra calories per ounce of feed, compared to 14% - that's all. If you overfeed an animal, it gets fat - that goes for pretty much any species. The problem isn't the feed, it's the feeder.

 

[Birdsong 82]

Is this something else other than those droppings that is making you concerned. My rabbit would have those droppings every once in a while as do my goats but after one or two of those droppings they go right back to normal and they’ve always been fine. If they seem to get worse then I take action but if it’s just one or two I wouldn’t be concerned. Is this a consistent thing?

 

[Happy Novogens]

@Bunnylady, you just seem to want to argue. You pick out one partial sentence out of paragraphs of writing and argue ad nauseum, ignoring the rest.

If you want to swear that the info printed on the bag of rabbit feeds is gospel truth, go ahead. I’m offering a different perspective based, yes, on science and on vet recommendation. I realize not all vets agree. But you cannot dismiss anything that disagrees with your bag of pellet feed and say that anyone else is just making stuff up.

You argue that there is too little difference between 14% and 16%, yet on your prior post, you stated that that precise difference made all the difference in one of your rabbits. (Nevermind that the actual comparison in the article is 12-14% verses 16-22%.)

Saying “the problem isn’t the feed, it’s the feeder” is only half true. Of course, the feeder is a critical component. It is exactly what my sources also say – limit the amount of pellets. No one is arguing that how much a rabbit eats will be ultimately up to the one giving the feed. (Though again, you actually argue both sides on this issue as well: on one hand saying that overfed rabbits will get fat while also saying that your rabbits don’t eat as much as you give them because they self-regulate.)

Saying ‘the problem isn’t the feed’ is the source of the disagreement here. You want to swear by your alfalfa-based feed and argue against using anything else. I’m simply showing that there is decades of observation and research in the house rabbit world that recommends otherwise.

People can make their own decision based on what they see and read. But the more information provided, the better that choice can be.

This is why, when you questioned me about the recommendation for timothy-based pellets, I not only explained the reasoning behind that recommendation in the house rabbit world, but also provided an alternative view from another source that feels that it isn’t a matter of timothy vs alfalfa, but is a matter of the added soy and grains that are a problem in traditional pellet feeds.

I’m simply trying to bring balance to the discussion. You are all for alfalfa-based feed. I am offering the alternate views for either timothy-based feed OR the idea of soy/grain free feed.

I’ll leave it at that.

 

[chickenmama109]

thanks every one. i seen in her pee ans poop pan under the wire that again was one of those poops if she is supposed to be eating them why are there some dropping through

 

[Birdsong 82]

They probably drop through before she has a chance to eat

thanks every one. i seen in her pee ans poop pan under the wire that again was one of those poops if she is supposed to be eating them why are there some dropping through

them

 

[Happy Novogens]

thanks every one. i seen in her pee ans poop pan under the wire that again was one of those poops if she is supposed to be eating them why are there some dropping through

She should be getting them as shown in video so the wire floor should make no difference. It sounds like these are just extra cecal pellets. An occasional extra one isn't much to be alarmed about. If it continues, then something might be up. Typically an excess of cecotropes is from too rich of a diet. Reducing the amount of pellets can often stop the excess. Some rabbits are just more sensitive than others.