Is this the way that poultry showing goes???

[EEBLACKCOPPERMARAN]

I showed my birds last year at my local fair in 4-h. I was able to observe the judge, and I noticed that the judge went by the cages pretty fast and said, "Give that one first place, second for the next and the other one a first place ribbon." and so on. (we do the danish system for showing.) Is that what normal poultry show looks like? Are they actually supposed to examine the birds? Thanks so much!

 

[cavemanrich]

I don't go to poultry shown but I'm with you on THE MARATHON JUDGE. I have read on some threads how people try to have the perfect birds to take to these shows, and they strive for the most minute details. Obviously the less perfect they leave at home... This marathon judge is ether VERY GOOD, or JUST DOESN'T GIVE A HOOT. or SHOW IS FIXED.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

I don't know about Danish shows, but the American ones where I live, the judges pick up each bird and examine them all for a good minute or two.

 

[EEBLACKCOPPERMARAN]

The judge probably doesn't care, but shouldn't all the birds be judged the same anyhow? It makes me not want to show my poultry because it makes me feel like it doesn't matter if they get first place because they weren't really judging them.

 

[Fred's Hens]

The judging system changed way back when. Decades ago, each bird was given a card, perhaps, with points cut from the 100 ideal score for faults found. So much "cut" for comb, for back line, etc. The winner would often be a really great bird with a score of 94 points. Today, there is no score earned per se.

Now, the judge is merely looking to place a bird as Best and another bird as Reserve. Then, he'll often start numbering them in order, such as #2 then #3 then $4 and so on down the line, if there are even that many birds entered of the same breed and variety.

Remember too that some birds don't get judged because the bird didn't "show", and the judge just may write DNS for did not show on the coop tag and move along. That means the bird just "hunkered" or sulked in the cage and didn't display worth a nickle. In a large show or a show with a large field, the judge may have to judge as many 300 or more birds in a large class such as the Americans or English class. It's a lot of work, for certain. I know, for example, that my bird only gets 5 seconds to dance and flash it's stuff before the judge when he comes to it's coop. Some really great birds simply will not show while other so so birds have a knack for really displaying themselves and "showing off" for the judge. It has to be quick and it has to impress.

You'd like to believe in a judging where every last bird is pulled from the coop, handling and judged. The sheer time it takes with super large fields makes that unlikely. The judge has to complete his work in a few hours and so, must move on with the task at hand. Basically the birds are judged against the standard but also judged against the competition in front of the judge.

Often, the field is so small that birds get awarded BV, RV quickly even though they are not good birds. Why? Because the judge can only place what is in front of her/him. If there are only 4 Barred Rocks, the judge can quickly pick his BV and RV and move along, writing #2 and #3 on the only other coop tags. It's a comparison type judging, not relying heavily upon the old point system of bygone days, although most of us still use that language of "cut" for this and "cut" for that fault.

Just my experience and YMMV.

 

[Bo Garrett]

Fred is correct, 80 years ago plus when shows lasted a week the judges had the time to score each bird based upon the point system; nowadays, shows last one or two days tops with three days shows typically being the maximum number of days (and these are very large shows of 5000+ birds. Judges worth their salt still judge by the standard but do not list the cuts but judge each bird by comparison to the standard with the one most closely adhering to the written standard being placed first in the sex classification; there are four sex classifications within each variety: Cock, Hen, Cockerel and Pullet. After each sex classification is placed then the judge with go back and assess the first place birds and pick the Best of Variety and Reserve of Variety. This continues through each breed within each class: American, Asiatic, Mediterranean, Continental, English and All Other Standard Breeds; same with bantams. When all the Best of Varieties are selected then they are judged to select the Champion of each class and then the Champions of each class are judged to select the Champion Large Fowl or Champion Bantam which will then go on to be selected for Show Champion and Reserve Show Champion; there will be times that the Reserves are brought into the champion selection if the next best champion is not as close to the standard as the reserve of the bird that won show champion. Confusing, sometimes, especially for newcomers but to us seasoned exhibitors this is common knowledge.
Fairs are a good place to start but often times do not run their shows according to the rules of the American Poultry Association or the American Bantam Association and thus the judges may be subpar. I recommend you find some sanctioned shows in your state and attend them and get your footing then throw your hat in the ring and show a few birds and let experience be your teacher. Remember that showing is more about the people you meet and make lifelong friendships with than it is about the poultry, if you remember that you will succeed in all you do.

Blessings,

Bo

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I'm not sure how 4-H decided to use the Danish system, but it doesn't conform to APA/ABA convention and thus severely undermines the entire exhibit. It has nothing to do with APA/ABA protocols, and young people showing under that process are not learning how to be life-long breeders of poultry, because they're not learning the rules of the game. At APA/ABA shows, juniors are not judged using the Danish system.

Another huge issue that arises at 4-H shows is the entering of hatchery birds. Honestly and to the point, exceedingly few breeds are available from commercial hatcheries in any form which approximates the SOP, the basis of all judging. They lack breed character to such an extent that the judge is stuck looking at the bird without any valid point of reference. Exceedingly frequently the only aspect of the bird the passes muster is the general color, the comb type, and the shank color. Otherwise, they're garbage, and there's no way past that. A hatchery Buff Orpington is so removed from proper Buff Orpington type that it renders the standard useless and thus all judging arbitrary. That, though, is discussing an Orpington, but a Cochin--a bantam cochin--from a hatchery? Impossible, absolutely impossible. This, of course, is not the judges fault.

Let's take it out of context. Imagine a competition for traditional,hand-made wooden furniture. There are all sorts of styles and expectations which mark authenticity. A judge is procured who is a master craftsman. Then, everybody shows up with Ikea products that they assembled "by hand" and thinks that that constitutes "hand made." Then the judge is asked to judge. What is he doing? What is he looking at? It doesn't matter if that Ikea table has been waxed for hours; the judge is still sat there trying to figure out if it's actually wood or a petroleum by-product. This is literally what it's like to judge hatchery birds.

As for handling, the SOP specifically states that all land fowl are to be handled save those "showing evidence of contagious disease [...] or a definitely inferior specimen" (28). The vast majority of hatchery stock is "definitely inferior" so there is no call for handling them. If a judge is handling them, it is because he/she is desperately searching for some reason to be able to justify his/her decisions when "You've got to be kidding me" is the only truthful response. In the end, with Danish system, you can just go 1-2-3 and try not to make any kids cry.

 

[SeaderHausFarm]

I am absolutely, positively just a beginner when it comes to judging poultry but I was the 'recorder' for our county fair judge this year (followed around and wrote the comments he had about the birds and the rankings) and I learned so much. When we first started 4H about 5 years ago we also just brought young hatchery birds that we bought at the local feed store. Our first lesson was that many of the birds were too young to really show well...then we learned that we really needed to pay attention to the standard when buying the birds. I find it frustrating (and I'm sure it's frustrating for the judge) that kids come to ID day and to fair without really even knowing what the heck kind of bird they have, let alone what the standard is. The judge said repeatedly that the kids needed to handle their birds more as well. Several of the birds were just wild and ended up with feathers flying everywhere.

I will say that we had nearly 400 birds and he did take each one out, some for longer than others, and I know he made the best decision he could about the birds who won Best and Reserve of Show.

Totally agree that it is a good idea to find a sanctioned show and attend or participate. It's a totally different experience than the Fair or 4H shows and you learn quite a bit from the experienced folks there!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I sure wish 4H Poultry clubs would adhere to the APA/ABA youth program books rather than their own publications. And I wish that they would start in the spring for raising exhibition birds for the following fall/spring show season. 4H kids (or more likely their parents) raising livestock rather than poultry seem to get that they need quality animals to fare well.

 

[TomNY]

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