Is too much protein bad for adult Chickens ?

[lazy gardener]

Huh? I thought lipids were fats, excreted by the bowels, and proteins were proteins, excreted by the kidneys. Lipid: any one of a group of fats or fatlike substances characterized by their insolubiliby in water...

Obviously, there has to be a middle ground, too much of a good thing is not necessarily good. However, I will stick to my guns stating that increased protein will result in quicker onset of lay.

 

[cluckcluckluke]

Hay all. What are your thoughts on adding meat meal to feed, be it layer of chick starter?
I currently am raising Leghorn chicks and read that they need more protein than even broilers, is this true?

 

[Beekissed]

Huh? I thought lipids were fats, excreted by the bowels, and proteins were proteins, excreted by the kidneys. Lipid: any one of a group of fats or fatlike substances characterized by their insolubiliby in water...

Obviously, there has to be a middle ground, too much of a good thing is not necessarily good. However, I will stick to my guns stating that increased protein will result in quicker onset of lay.

You are correct and I am not...proteins are amino acids and lipids are fats, although proteins are not often excreted in the urine unless there is a problem with the kidneys, from what I've studied.

. Lipid metabolism is closely connected to the metabolism of carbohydrates which may be converted to fats. This can be seen in the diagram on the left. The metabolism of both is upset by diabetes mellitus.
The first step in lipid metabolism is the hydrolysis of the lipid in the cytoplasm to produce glycerol and fatty acids.
Since glycerol is a three carbon alcohol, it is metabolized quite readily into an intermediate in glycolysis, dihydroxyacetone phosphate. The last reaction is readily reversible if glycerol is needed for the synthesis of a lipid.
The hydroxyacetone, obtained from glycerol is metabolized into one of two possible compounds. Dihydroxyacetone may be converted into pyruvic acid through the glycolysis pathway to make energy.
In addition, the dihydroxyacetone may also be used in gluconeogenesis to make glucose-6-phosphate for glucose to the blood or glycogen depending upon what is required at that time.
Fatty acids are oxidized to acetyl CoA in the mitochondria using the fatty acid spiral. The acetyl CoA is then ultimately converted into ATP, CO2, and H2O using the citric acid cycle and the electron transport chain.
Fatty acids are synthesized from carbohydrates and occasionally from proteins. Actually, the carbohydrates and proteins have first been catabolized into acetyl CoA. Depending upon the energy requirements, the acetyl CoA enters the citric acid cycle or is used to synthesize fatty acids in a process known as LIPOGENESIS.

That often happens when I try to remember anatomy and physiology from many moons ago!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

The Feeding Poultry book said sometimes what might appear to be a need for more protein was probably actually a need for more vitamins and minerals found in (animal?) proteins ... It also acknowledged the unknown things science hasn't been able to isolate and synthesize, such as an unknown (at the time) factor that makes real sunshine more beneficial to poultry than any vitamin supplement or artificial light (for example).

 

[DufferChick]

Does fermenting the feed increase the absorption of nutrients, such as protein? My commercial layer feed is 16% protein.

 

[DeepFriedBacon]

I was just about to ask about fermenting feed...lol. It has been said here that it will raise protein content by 12%, so if you're feeding or starting with a 16-18% feed, then fermenting, Yu are going over the preset "limit" of usable protein. It also allows more of the nutrient to be absorbable, so its also possible that 16% feed, if its not in a perfectly digestible state, might not all be used.

keeping chickens is sorta easy, even tribes of people with no formal education all over the world can manage to keep flocks alive. Is feeding yur flock only a commercial feed going to be ok, sure, its designed for a broad range of needs. Like carpet bombing in war, it'll get the job done. If you wanna be a sniper, that works too, just need more training so to speak. Let the birds range if you can, even if its just a few hours a week, toss them a head of lettuce or other green kitchen scraps and give them commercial feed. They be fine.

 

[Beekissed]

I was just about to ask about fermenting feed...lol. It has been said here that it will raise protein content by 12%, so if you're feeding or starting with a 16-18% feed, then fermenting, Yu are going over the preset "limit" of usable protein. It also allows more of the nutrient to be absorbable, so its also possible that 16% feed, if its not in a perfectly digestible state, might not all be used.

keeping chickens is sorta easy, even tribes of people with no formal education all over the world can manage to keep flocks alive. Is feeding yur flock only a commercial feed going to be ok, sure, its designed for a broad range of needs. Like carpet bombing in war, it'll get the job done. If you wanna be a sniper, that works too, just need more training so to speak. Let the birds range if you can, even if its just a few hours a week, toss them a head of lettuce or other green kitchen scraps and give them commercial feed. They be fine.

I'm not sure if it raises protein content as that would be impossible, wouldn't it, to produce proteins out of thin air? I'm thinking it merely converts the carbs in the grains to amino acids that are called "perfect" proteins and are more usable by the bird. Although, those feeding spent brewers grains are feeding a protein content of around 24-25% due to the material in the grains being concentrated and distilled down.

 

[Beekissed]

Does fermenting the feed increase the absorption of nutrients, such as protein? My commercial layer feed is 16% protein.

That's what the studies say....other studies also describe increased absorption and utilization of minerals and vitamins through the fermenting, which could explain the increase in good feathering, thicker egg shells, larger yolks, etc. we are seeing with the use of the fermentation of feeds.

 

[DeepFriedBacon]

I was reading the fermenting for meaties thread, could of swore that's what was said. Whether or not its just freeing them up, don't remember. Ima look now.

 

[Beekissed]

I was reading the fermenting for meaties thread, could of swore that's what was said. Whether or not its just freeing them up, don't remember. Ima look now.

Yep...that's what has been tossed around and we are still learning since the inception of that thread...always questing for confirmation of what actually happens to the grains upon fermentation. If you have any information you could share it would be a real bonus!