Isabel vs Porcelain Orpingtons

[fatcatx]

I've been trying to determine the difference between a porcelain and Isabel orpington. Frequently they are discussed together as part of a joint breeding project. Is the difference just in the pattern? What do you cross to get each? Everything I've read just confused rather than help explain.

 

[BlackHackle]

I've been trying to determine the difference between a porcelain and Isabel orpington. Frequently they are discussed together as part of a joint breeding project. Is the difference just in the pattern? What do you cross to get each? Everything I've read just confused rather than help explain.

Porcelain is almost like a Lavender Mottled Orpington. Isabel is almost like Lavender barred.

I wouldn't know how to get those colors though

 

[The Moonshiner]

porcelain is lavender buff columbian mottled.
Isabel is lavender gold duckwing.

 

[fatcatx]

Thank you both for responses. That helps.

porcelain is lavender buff columbian mottled.
Isabel is lavender gold duckwing.

Moonshiner can you explain why someone would be mixing the two in a breeding program? I've seen repeated offerings of eggs from mixed porcelain and Isabel pens. What would be the pattern results?

 

[fatcatx]

I reached out on our local FB forum and they were described as the following, each diluted by the lavender gene...

Isabel = partridge
Isabel cuckoo = partridge + barring
porcelain = jubilee

 

[nicalandia]

porcelain is lavender buff columbian mottled.
Isabel is lavender gold duckwing.

I agree

can you explain why someone would be mixing the two in a breeding program? I've seen repeated offerings of eggs from mixed porcelain and Isabel pens. What would be the pattern results?

I would stay clear from irresponsible breeders, the result of the cross would be incomplete columbian diluted by lavender, basically eb/e+ Co/co Mo/mo+ lav/lav

 

[The Moonshiner]

Thank you both for responses. That helps.


Moonshiner can you explain why someone would be mixing the two in a breeding program? I've seen repeated offerings of eggs from mixed porcelain and Isabel pens. What would be the pattern results?

I don't know much about either pattern in Orpingtons.
For me porcelain was know in d'uccles for decades. Its just lavender added to the mille fluer pattern which is buff columbian with mottling.
Jubilee is the same as MF with mahgony added.
As for Isabel IDK where it came from in Orpingtons. Maybe it was pulled from the Jubilee. Partridge can be confusing because it means different things in different countries and to different people.
I'll go out on a limb and say the Jubilee is what is being called partridge with the buff columbian, mahogany and mottled added.
That would mean the Isabel is a stripped down version of the porcelain.
I would assume the jubilee was crossed with a lavender and then bred towards being porcelain. In the process some of the genes were lost which created the Isabel type.
I can see how both came from the same place but at some point the breeder would need to separate the two projects to breed towards true breeding of either.
That's a point when breeding gets more of a pain in the @$$. I suspect those breeders are either new in the projects, not very educated in project breeding or for one reason or another not taking it to the next level.
I would say its not necessarily irresponsible breeding. You'd have to question them and see what they're train of thought is.
Personally I wouldn't want to sell birds from a mixed project without completely explaining my project and what the options would be in someone else continuing it.

 

[fatcatx]

Thanks everyone for all the great info. I currently don't breed but I wanted to understand the genetics and what the different patterns produced. Most egg sellers seem to be very upfront and helpful describing what their mixed pen may produce. (I just didn't have a clue if they were right.) The info above will give me a good starting point to understand how the cross-genetics works.

 

[Jenndog]

I don't know much about either pattern in Orpingtons.
For me porcelain was know in d'uccles for decades. Its just lavender added to the mille fluer pattern which is buff columbian with mottling.
Jubilee is the same as MF with mahgony added.
As for Isabel IDK where it came from in Orpingtons. Maybe it was pulled from the Jubilee. Partridge can be confusing because it means different things in different countries and to different people.
I'll go out on a limb and say the Jubilee is what is being called partridge with the buff columbian, mahogany and mottled added.
That would mean the Isabel is a stripped down version of the porcelain.
I would assume the jubilee was crossed with a lavender and then bred towards being porcelain. In the process some of the genes were lost which created the Isabel type.
I can see how both came from the same place but at some point the breeder would need to separate the two projects to breed towards true breeding of either.
That's a point when breeding gets more of a pain in the @$$. I suspect those breeders are either new in the projects, not very educated in project breeding or for one reason or another not taking it to the next level.
I would say its not necessarily irresponsible breeding. You'd have to question them and see what they're train of thought is.
Personally I wouldn't want to sell birds from a mixed project without completely explaining my project and what the options would be in someone else continuing it.

Out of curiosity, what would it take to keep the porcelain Orpingtons. Say I have several porcelains if they breed would I get porcelain or do they just fade out? Idk I'm new chicken owner as of yesterday got these babies for the eggs