Isbar thread

[lonnyandrinda]

Hm... but these chicks aren't "perfectly fine" one minute and dead the next. They stop eating and drinking and waste away, peeping a lot the last day.

Mary did say that her Isbars came straight from GFF and were probably Marek's vaccinated. So they are the grandparents of my chicks and I'm not really sure that it would carry that far, plus the Isbars are being brooded by themselves now and still dying. I'm fairly certain Jordan Farms stock also came from GFF and would have been vaccinated also but I don't know how many generations before they got to me.
Hm.... worth a little more research. I will definitely post when I get more information from the lab.

 

[debs_flock]

OK. I found it. Mind you, it may not have anything to do with your problem...just another brainstorming idea to look at. This comes out of "Hatching and rearing your birds" It comes out of the UK. Looks like most the book was written by Terry Beebe (Practical Poultry).

Anyway, there is a Q & A section in the back of the book. One of the questions was from a man who had 30 chicks in his brooder. He said "...but I have lost 19 chicks of various breeds, mostly Silkies and Faverolles. There appears to be nothing wrong with them as far as I can see but obviously there is. They do not have mite or dirty vents and seemed perfectly healthy one day but dead by the next morning. The chicks are from 2 - 5 weeks old."

The answer goes into some obvious reasons.....infection inside the brooder, overcrowding, and coccidiosis, but then he says, "You also mention two breeds, one of which is the Silkie. This could be another possible cause of your problems as most Silkie chickens are vaccinated against Meraks, a disease from which they are prone to suffer. If they are not vaccinated they will in most cases die and may also infect the other chicks in the brooder. You really have to be careful that you do not mix breeds that are normally vaccinated with breeds that are non-vaccinated as this can lead to some very serious infections and in most cases many fatalities. "

I had this happen to me....a man gave me some mixed breed chicks...mostly silkie mixes and some had Faverolle in them, too. They all seemed fine and I would walk in there and take a picture one minute and then an hour later, that chick would be dead. I lost all but one and my Isbar. They were all between 2 - 4 weeks old when they died.

Maybe this is the case with the Isbars? I don't know....just a thought. May have absolutely nothing to do with Isbars or what happened to your chicks. But, if one breeder is vaccinating and the other is not, and some of that is passed thru to the chicks and then you breed them, might be something to think about? Isbars are fairly new here, so maybe they are like the Silkies and Faverolles?

Anyway, I hope you find out what happened and let us know.

What he means by that is a vaccinated bird with Marek's will not show symptoms and then will be a carrier of Marek's (same with a bird that has recovered from Marek's). I don't believe he is implying there is a problem with previous generations having received vaccine.

Also, "most silkies vaccinated" may be true in the UK, but I've never heard of anything like that here.

 

[KYTinpusher]

Unless you request otherwise, I believe all the commercial hatcheries vaccinate their chicks for Marek's. Most of them are likely carriers.

I just hatched 4 Isbar chicks over the weekend

, so I am watching this issue with much interest. I believe I have 2 splash, a blue and a black. I hatched 4/5 shipped eggs, so I'm thinking they are pretty hardy chicks to start with. I started them on unmedicated chick crumbles mixed with kefir. I also put a vitamin/electrolyte supplement in their water and will probably switch out to water with CS added in the next round, switching back and forth.

I was wondering if anyone had tried any other supplements, like Thorvin Kelp? I am thinking of adding that to their feed or offering it free-choice in case the issue is some trace mineral deficiency. I also have ordered some Redmond's Mineral conditioner (basically a natural sea salt) that I may try offering free-choice when I get it next week, but I am not sure.

 

[Flowerbh]

You know how people's blood types are positive or negative and when you have babies between a neg and a pos, you have to have special shots to prevent baby deaths, do chickens have such differences?

 

[lonnyandrinda]

You are speaking of the rH factor, no I don't believe chickens have anything like that.

I tried adding RedCell to the feed of the last batch, it is a vitamin supplement labeled for cattle. I did it hesitantly as it has a lot of iron and I understand chicks are eaily overpowered by iron toxicity, so I only did it once per week. No change in the results, I still lost most of them.

The batch that made it to 6 weeks with the Colloidal Silver I think I also gave Poly-vi-sol baby vitamins once or twice per week.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Just got some more results from the lab. It is definitely a bacterial infection killing my Isbar chicks; they are culturing the bacteria now to identify it.

Histopathology Comments (July 3, 2013): Microscopic changes in the birds are
consistent with bacterial infection and inflammation of the yolk sac remnants (i.e.
omphalitis). Two of the chicks also have evidence of septicemia. Acute bacterial
sepsis is the apparent cause of death. Bacteriology has recovered bacteria from
these chicks; however, final identification is pending. Identification of the
bacteria should help determine the route of spread. Until we have identified the
bacteria in this case, it is recommended that eggs from this breed not be
consumed, in the event that the bacteria are Salmonella.
Final bacteriology is pending.

Multiple H&E-stained tissue sections are examined microscopically. Tissues on
slides 1-3 are from chick 6/28; tissues on slides 4-6 are from chick 6/29; and
tissues on slides 7-9 are from chick 7/1. There is mild to moderate postmortem
autolysis of the tissue sections.
Yolk sac: The yolk sac contents of chicks 6/28 (slide 2), 6/29 (slide 5), and 7/1
(slide 8) are heavily colonized by bacteria. The bacteria and cellular debris are
bordered by a rim of heterophils and histiocytes.
Lung: The lung of chick 6/29 (slide 4) contains multifocal necrosis that is
centered on parabronchi. The necrotic foci contain deposits of fibrin, edema, and
infiltration by many bacteria (bacterial rods) that are occasionally intracellular.
The necrotic lung tissue is infiltrated by modest numbers of heterophils and fewer
histiocytes. There is a single focus of necrosis and bacteria in the lung of chick
7/1 (slide 7); however, several of the pulmonary capillaries are colonized by
bacteria. Small numbers of bacteria are present in a parabronchus of chick 6/28,
but these organisms may be postmortem invaders.
Spleen: Lymphoid tissue in the spleens of chicks 6/29 (slide 5) and 7/1 (slide 7)
are markedly depleted and accompanied by multifocal deposition of fibrin.
Multifocal bacterial colonization is also present in the spleen of chick 7/1.
Liver: Bacteria multifocally colonize the hepatic sinusoids and vasculature of
chick 7/1 (slide 8). Small foci of hepatocellular degeneration and necrosis are
scattered randomly throughout the liver of this chick.
Kidney: Bacteria multifocally colonize the renal vasculature of chick 7/1 (slide 9).
No significant histologic lesions are identified in sections of heart, trachea,
esophagus, crop, proventriculus, ventriculus, intestine, or brain.

It must be something my adults are carrying but their immune systems are strong enough to be asymptomatic. Now to wait some more to find out what kind of bacteria....

 

[KYTinpusher]

I was wondering today if it might be MG. From what I have read, many of the carriers will show no symptoms unless stressed and it can be passed through the egg. Have you had your birds tested for it?

 

[lonnyandrinda]

That is a possibility. They have not been tested for it. But based on this, I would say no because one of the symptoms is post-mortem lesions and the portion of the labwork I already received said there were no lesions. I guess I will know for sure when the lab sends me the final results, they are closed tomorrow for the holiday but will be open Friday and I'm hoping to hear back on the final results then, although it may be Monday before I get them.

 

[atmaclean]

I hatched 5/6 Isbar chicks from shipped eggs in January of this year. I got 3 roosters (splash, blue, black) and one hen (splash). I did not notice any differences in them and the other chicks I hatched. I add ACV, Nutri Drench and Oxine to their water - every bird I have here gets that in their water. The hen has been laying now for about a month. She lays a green egg that is a different green that my araucana or my americaunas or my EE hens.

I have been following your posts with much interest and look forward to hearing what final results you get.

Angela in NC

 

[KYTinpusher]

I hatched 5/6 Isbar chicks from shipped eggs in January of this year. I got 3 roosters (splash, blue, black) and one hen (splash). I did not notice any differences in them and the other chicks I hatched. I add ACV, Nutri Drench and Oxine to their water - every bird I have here gets that in their water. The hen has been laying now for about a month. She lays a green egg that is a different green that my araucana or my americaunas or my EE hens.

I have been following your posts with much interest and look forward to hearing what final results you get.

Angela in NC

Just curious, do you add all of those at once, or do you rotate?