It's been asked and answered a million times...

[Makareina]

... worming.

I have read everything I am able here, I've not seen anything exactly connected with my situation. So, rather than assuming anything... I will just ask away!

I want to know if anyone has experience with "blackhead" treatment. I am interested in treating my flock for this condition, I am thinking of bring turkeys in and feel like I want to kill off the little protozoa if it is present in my critters before bringing turkeys on.

I am also intersted in knowing, I want to worm my whole flock (about 40 birds in all, banties and standards) with Ivermectin. Something as broad spectrum as possible. Will that help with treating "blackhead"? Also, regarding Ivermectin, I will want to treat each of my critters individually. They are all pets, and they are used to being handled... I want to make sure everyone gets the appropriate dose. Is there a type of Ivermectin I need to find other than the 1% solution available at feed stores? And what about treatment... is it via mouth or can I use it as a "drench" and put the drops on their skin for absorption?

Thanks so much in advance. I've been a lurker for some time, I've learned a lot... and I am very grateful for everyone supporting newbies like me. This is my first go-around with "ckickens", and I am beyond smitten with their sweet selves.

I await your responses...

 

[chickenlady]

Are you saying you want to treat perfectly healthy chickens with medications for fear of what they might have? Are they showing any symptoms? Here is a blurb about blackhead:

Blackhead

Blackhead disease (also known simply as blackhead) is a commercially important avian disease that affects chickens, turkeys and other poultry. It is a form of histomoniasis caused by the protozoan parasite Histomonas meleagridis. Blackhead disease affects turkeys more than chickens.
Symptoms

* Darkened face
* Signs of illness (weight loss, ruffled feathers, loss of appetite, etc...)
* Blood in the poo

Treatment

* Remove infected birds and cull, no treatment available
* Clean pen thoroughly and sanitize to keep from spreading




As far as the wormer, i use ivomec exprinex pour on. I use 1/4 cc on bantams and 1/2 cc on large fowl. I use a syringe(needleless) and apply between shoulder blades on the skin.

 

[Makareina]

Hi! Thanks for your response! I appreciate it greatly. About "blackhead", I have done research on the condition mainly because I have an interest in adding several turkeys to my mix of critters. There are varied schools of thought on whether a person can/should do that or not. I read about the condition and that chickens are often symptom free and yet remain carriers, and one of the signs is a yellow poop. I've got several birds with that, though none that aren't thriving and such.

I am looking for opinions and actual experience, so I'm happy to accept all schools of thought on this. I'm not one for treating unnecessarily, I'm more trying to be proactive in a situation where I can't now control where all my chickens came from and whether they were exposed to "stuff" when they weren't here yet.

Does anyone have experience with adding turkeys to a chicken/duck/goose flock? I'd love to know how that went!

Thanks for your time!

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

On the worming with Ivermectin
I would suggest that they be wormed first with wazine or peperzine
then Ivermectin pour on is 5% Ivermectin
1% ivermectin is the shot or down the throat kind

the reason for worming 10 days apart is this

the first worming with piperzine or wazine is to take and kill or expell the woms from the gut of the chickens
and that will ease the pressure put on the chickens body from being poisoned by too many killed or expelled round worms at one time

then give the wet mash probiotic inbetween the peperzine or wazineworming
and then the Ivermectin worming

you can call Smith poultry supply in Ks that had the pour on for $29.00 which was a good buy

Smith Poultry & Game Bird Supply

14000 W. 215th St., Bucyrus, KS 66013-9519

Ph. 913-879-2587 - 7:30 A. M. - 3 P. M CST Monday-Friday

24-hour Fax. 913-533-2497



Do ask them if it is pour on( generally blue in color) so you know if it is 5% drop on flesh
or 1% water soluble for down the throat or in shot with propolene glycol? drops of propolen glycol to one drop of Ivermectin 1% and each chicken gets 4 drops ivermectin for females and 5 drops ivermectin for cockerels adding the appropreate amt of proplene glycol with each drop of ivermectin

Wet mash probiotics are neccessary for the good gut flora to come back after poisoning the worms that were in the chickens gut

worms are very hard on chickens and getting them wormed chemically is very hard on chickens
so a need for wet mash probiotics
better to be safe than sorry

worming twice a yr is plenty with these two wormers
and the wet mash probiotic is for all times when not using mycin antibiotics
yes on a rainy cool spring the wild birds spread the round worms as they eat a lot of earth worms which have the round worm egg larves in their manure
another good reason not to feed earth worms

My friend Randy Henry did a lot of study on worming in his 17 yrs study on Veterinary
here is some of his usage of Ivermectin 1% soluble and 5%

Also severl people use Ivomec wormer 1% water soluble
or 5% and put on the neck skin of the bird.

Injectable 1% is
used inside the bird in injection or in the water also given down the throat
. And
5% is used on the shoulder or neck flesh of the bird only. Not inside the birds mouth.

Directions for 5% ivomec put on shoulder or on the neck
only not internally.
(1 1 drop small bantam such as female OE
(2 2 drops large bantam male like OE
(3 3 drops most bantams
(4 4 drops larger bantams and smaller commercial hens
(5 5 drops commercial large fowl and smaller large
fowl
(5 5 drops Large fowl chicken
(7 7 drops larger males of large fowl breeds of
USING ALL METHODS OF WORMING/SEVERAL PEOPLE HERE
06/21/09 at 15:38:39 DIFFERENT TYPES OF WORMING
Read all this carefully and decide what is your best plan of doing the worming
the 5% drop on is time consuming but the best over all method in my opinion
Nathalie Ross discusses this on her spot here
Glenda L Heywood Brookings SD
http://www.gkpet.com
click on pet forum for articles on poultry
[email protected]




HERE IS SOME ANSWERS TO USING WAZINE FOR ROUND WORMS AND iVERMECTIN FOR THE OTHERS AND LICE AND MITES
try reading and answering most of your questions on usine
wazine or peperzine for round worms
and Ivermectin 1% water soluble or 5% oil based
ANY QUESTIONS EMAIL THEM TO ME
Glenda L Heywood

ANSWER
my friend Pam Hogan gives this info on using Ivermetin 1% water soluble

Dr. Ron Dickey, of Rogue River Veterinary Hospital, gave us the
following formula for worming with Ivomec, which is safe to use on
any bird, because it goes by the weight of the bird.

Use only 1% injectible cattle formula of Ivomec—not the pour-on.

Dilute the Ivomec 10 fold. Use 9 parts water or propylene glycol to
1 part 1% Ivomec. Use .1cc per lb. of body weight. For smaller
birds, dilute 20/1 and use 1cc per lb. of body weight.

If you are using water, Ivomec is not stable in water, so you have
to keep shaking it well before you draw a dosage. Ivomec is stable
in propylene glycol, and it works much better. You can buy a big
jug of it at most feedstores/farm supplies—it is used for pregnant
sheep, goats and cattle.

Ivomec is effective against internal parasites like trachea worm,
and also takes care of the external parasites. Levasole gets the
capillary worms and some others that the Ivomec doesn't get.
Pam Hogan

ANSWER
My friend Randy Henry did a lot of study on worming in his 17 yrs study on Veterinary
here is some of his usage of Ivermectin 1% soluble and 5% oil based

Also severl people use Ivomec wormer 1% water soluble
or 5% oil based and put on the neck skin of the bird.

Injectable 1% is
used inside the bird in injection or in the water also given down the throat
. And
5% oil based is used on the shoulder of the bird only. Not inside the birds mouth.

Directions for 5% ivomec with oil base put on shoulder
only not internally.
(1 1 drop small bantam such as female OE
(2 2 drops large bantam male like OE
(3 3 drops most bantams
(4 4 drops larger bantams and smaller commercial hens
(5 5 drops commercial large fowl and smaller large
fowl
(5 5 drops Large fowl chicken
(7 7 drops larger males of large fowl breeds of
Chickens.

(A 5% oil type Ivomec Stays on the birds for at least
6 weeks. and is the reason it is only used on the out
side under the feathers on the shoulder of the
chickens. Slow release time.

(B 1% water soulable is injectable and can be used in
the water. also given by mouth

USING 1% IVERMECTIN IN THE WATER
WHICH IS NOT MY PREFERRED USE OF IT????
you have to treat 4 times a yr GLH


Iona wrote:
I leave treated water (4 cc per gallon of water) in the coops for 2
days. It is the only water so everyone drinks. I change the water
mixture every day and more often if it gets dirty. There is a great
margin for safety when using ivermectin so I don't worry about a bird
over dosing on it. I have been using injectable ivermectin mixed with
drinking water for 5 years now and have never had a problem.
GAILsaid this
I use the injectable 1 % solution mixed at 8 cc. per gallon of water to
treat canaries for air sac mites and to worm chickens, budgies,
canaries, cockatiels, etc. I take their water away the night before and
use this solution as the only source of water for 24 hours. It is
important to treat again in 10 days to get all the mites that have
hatched out since the treatment BEFORE they can lay eggs again. For
scaly face/leg mites I treat the birds at least four times.
To prevent heart worms and treat round and hook worms in dogs I use the
same 1% injectable diluted 14 cc. of ivermectin to 86 cc of propylene
glycol, administered orally once a month at a dosage rate of 1 cc for
every ten pounds body weight. This works very well for me, although I
would use caution in giving ivermectin to collies or collie crosses. I
have not had any problem with shetland sheepdogs or border collies, but
your results may vary.

Gail
any questions email me

 

[Makareina]

... Thanks loads for your info!! I am grateful for your opinions and experience! Ever since I got my babies, I have been giving them plain yogourt periodically. They all love it! I've also got a vit/probiotic combination that goes in to their water so I can cover the bases more readily on days I can't/don't give them yogourt.

In your opinion, after worming... especially with the Ivermectin 5% drench, how long do I need to discard eggs?

Thanks for your time!

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

THE 5% IS not a drench
IT IS TOPICALLY PUT IN DROPS ON THE FLESH

THE 1% IS A DRENCH
AND NEEDS 5 DROPS OF PROPOLENE GLYCOL TO 1 DROP OF 1% IVERMECTIN

WITH THAT SAID
YOU NEED TO NOT USE THE EGGS FOR THE DAY OF WORMING AND 10 DAYS MORE

i ALWAYS FED THE BOILED EGGS TO THE CATS AND DOGS
THE WORMER WILL NOT HURT THEM

I would feed the wet mash probiotics once a day for the week not eating the eggs
it mnakes for better eggs

wet mash probiotic

1 qt of dry crumbles
1-1/2 qt of milk
1 cup of yoguart
and top with 1 cup of apple sauce for flavor

mix good and add apple sauce

feed 3 tbsp per adult chicken 2 tsp per chick when feeding the mix
wait 30 minutes and clean up wet feeders and restock dy feed

any questions email me

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

I posted some very good information on Blackhead in another post
so please go read it

also I do not feel it advisable to put turkeys with chickens
as that has been my experience from friends who have them
but you have to do as you feel good about

any questions email me

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Ivermectin worming regularly is a good practice to help reduce the numbers of the intermediate host of blackhead, a cecal worm. Keeping your flock regularly worm-free will help. Ivermectin is effective against that cecal worm.

However, it's not effective against the protazoa that the worm carry. Should the worm dump its load of protazoa and THEN the worm is killed, it's still too late. You'd have to treat the protazoa (if the bird has blackhead) with Flagyl (metronidazole) or another product for blackhead. They're not available over the counter in the U.S. However, pigeon supply companies import, and fish-zole is also used.

So to help as a preventative measure, worming with ivermectin is useful. Just know that it won't totally kill the protazoa.

My method of using ivermectin is as Glenda posted for "pour-on" - the blue liquid. I use 8 drops on small turkey hens. I use generic ivermectin (not any other -mectin personally). My last was Aspen brand, 250ml at $14. (Ivomec brand - the same thing - is very much higher priced and I understand they dont' make the small container any more for cost reasons...could be a rumor).

If your birds haven't been wormed in over 6 months, show any signs of worms, or have a questionable worming history, worm with Wazine 17 first (piperazine 17% solution) as labeled mixed with their water as their sole source of water for one day. Toss or feed eggs back to chickens for 2 weeks. THEN go back and treat with the ivermectin in 2-4 weeks.

Worming first with wazine kills the bulk of adult rounds but not larvae and few other things. If the birds have a heavy parasite load (and looking for worms in the feces will not at all be dependable in telling you whether or not they do) then worming them with ivermectin first can sometimes cause shock or blockage as the dying worms exit the body.

Wazine only paralyzes them, so they're not recognized as a 'foreign protein' by the body and the paralyzed worms are less in number. So it's a safe first wormer for birds with questionable parasite loads. Going back with the ivermectin as a follow up kills the rest of the adults, the larvae (so they don't transition into adults) and other worms as well, and external blood-taking parasites.

Alternately, you could take randomly chosen fresh fecal samples to your vet for a "fecal egg count". Worms more often shed eggs, not themselves, in feces so it's a dependable way to tell if your birds have the common worms (rounds, capillary). That way you can tell if they have a heavy parasite load. If they don't, start with ivermectin.

By the way, if you use drop-on (my favorite way because I HATE giving oral meds to birds) you hold them in one hand. Then with the other find a good spot on the skin that is naked. The back of the neck has little down and lower on the back of the neck is usually where I choose. It must be on the main body - not the comb for example. Then I use a 3cc syringe with a 25 gauge needle - very common - and draw up a cc of the ivermectin. DO NOT inject the bird. I use the needle because it's easier to dispense one drop at a time with it than with a dropper. I hold the needle pointing to the side of the (not down towards it) in case he jumps up so I don't poke him. Then when you get the fluff cleared away from your spot, drop on the drops. If you hit fluff with one, replace on the skin with another drop. 10-14 days discarding the eggs after ivermectin.

It has a very very high safety margin. Just be careful of course. And wear gloves so, unlike me, you don't routinely get ivermectin on you.

Incidentally, another symptoms of blackhead (as the darkening of the head doesn't always occur) is sulfurous colored droppings.