Its Time To NAME THAT EYE PROBLEM!!!Update: PG 11 bottom of Post #101

[The Wolf Queen]

Three horses actually what I ment was that if the DOA thought my birds have that discease, even if they just guess, THEY will cull my entire flock. Not me. Ma called your vet and their closed on weekends

. Monday we will ask her to do a bacterial test on one or two of the sick birds (more if its free) then if it does turn out to be something serious, Ill have all of my outdoor birds tested.
If I missed something correct me, and in advance if it is a discease that wont go away, will possibly be always contagious, and will transport to their chicks Im gonna cull the ones that come back possitive.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Thanks but yeah I read that on the container. I gave it to them for 3 days. Actually more like 2 1/2. Then the next day they got yogurt and some vitamin supplement.

OK good then that's covered by the packaging. Just wanted to make sure because Tylan is WAY too helpful a drug to lose the use of!

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
I don't believe that anyone can guess and cull. There would be too many lawsuits.

I have an email in to someone who might be able to help us out. Because it's the weekend, I don't expect a reply until Tuesday.

 

[The Wolf Queen]

Stupidly and apparently they can.

 

[zowieyellowflame]

Well,
Just throwing something out there.... I found this info....
The most common eye irritant in intensive animal production systems is ammonia gas (NH 3 ). Ammonia gas is extremely irritating to the membranes that line the eyelids, eyes, sinuses and trachea. Conjunctivitis is inflammation of the conjunctiva (membranes that line the eyelids) and the exposed sclera (white part of the eye). Affected birds have reddened, swollen eyelids, and are sensitive to and avoid light. If high ammonia levels persist, the cornea, the outermost part of the front of the eyeball, becomes ulcerated and blindness may occur.

Ammonia gas is a bacterial breakdown product produced when uric acid from poultry manure combines with water forming a suitable environment for bacterial growth. Bacterial growth, and the resulting NH 3 production, is also dependent upon litter or manure pH and temperature.

In intensive production systems, high levels of ammonia gas buildup are associated with inadequate ventilation. Ammonia is not typically a problem for birds raised in extensive or semi-extensive systems.
I have been googling stuff for you, that is all I found so far. Only you know what their environment is, this could be one of many causes. Conjunctivitis is an inflammation of the conjunctiva which can be caused by many things and give a variety of symptoms. For example, in HUMANS***, bacterial conjunctivitis often gives goopy discharge, redness and is aka pink eye. Allergic is a stringy discharge with itch and virus is a watery discharge. Also mechanical, chemical, disease and so on.
I would take the vet's advice. It is important to follow the directions of professionals who have studied animal medicine but know that it is possible that they can misdiagnose. When you treat humans for conjunctivitis, there is relief and improvement usually within a couple of days and total correction in 10 days.
It is possible that the conjunctivitis is a symptom and not the cause and if there is any additional testing you can get for free and cheap and with relative ease, then do it for peace of mind. But I think you should have some faith in the vet and if their symptoms do not improve in 2 or 3 days, call the vet back and ask what the next course of action will be.
***Current licensing and knowledge in human ocular pathology only, no knowledge of poultry ocular pathology.

 

[dlhunicorn]

@Zowie
You might want to have a look at my collected articles (I am sure they will mean much more to you than to me)... info on the net is indeed scarce on this particular subject (I probably have some squirreled away in my computer or bookmarks that I have not gotten around to putting in the library but I will try to do that soon...
http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=linksgeneralinfo&action=display&num=1161254850

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Beasley/cpt2J/ivis.pdf
(BEASLEY -Veterinary Toxicology-Toxicants That Cause Blindness)
A handy chart

(I also have articles on eyeworms if you are ever interested in that)

 

[threehorses]

Maybe we should get back to some basics, too.

We haven't really discussed the environment that they're in, etc. We're at a standstill, there are some great articles to open up some trains of thought and whatnot.

I can't recall (and please forgive me if you have) whether or not you've told us how the chickens are kept.

A big part of figuring stuff out is taking a flock history. That means we get as much details as possible on the total world of your flock, and then sometimes a little seemingly insignificant thing might actually be a big clue.

As it's an essential part of diagnosis or fixing problems, I think we should hash through things like bedding, air flow, whether your chickens are kept in runs, or coops, how much light they get, what their air quality is like, etc.

Tell us - in excruciating detail - all the little things about your bird. You might have to go sit down and just look at your coop and think about some things really for the first time... but any info you can share, it might help.

I still wonder whether the vet just described the situation in a way that you could understand, withotu getting painfully technical with you - and maybe we're misunderstanding (through a third party) exactly what she said about the diagnosis? She might have just tried to keep simple her reasons for choosing an ophthalmic.

 

[lildinkem]

When I started in chickens, I medicated for stuff like this. The Tylan prolly did as much to kill some of my birds as the crud I was treating.
I found the less I medicate, and let nature takes its course you will eventually have much more resistant birds against diseases like this. Some will die, of those who live, they will pass on the genetics to help future generations in your flock deal much better aginst more strains of this disease.
I do keep Tylan on hand. I ONLY use it for my top quality birds. Which are few. I hope to breed healthy birds into my lines to assure better healthier birds for the future. This year I have lost few birds, they got sick ONLY when I introduced a new bird into my flock. But, that is a good thing, those who have lived now do not get sick when new blood comes in. And that is what it is all about. Raising chickens that you can show, and not need to have to use booties, bleach and all the rest of the junk that all those who freak out about Bio Security have to use.

 

[threehorses]

I agree with you on that.

Honestly there are some methods of treatment that I think are UNDERused: clean fresh air, ventilation, getting their nutrition back to where it should have been (so many illnesses on here turn out to be a diet that's just not quite right). Keeping things clean, keeping flocks apart. Not medicating the first time you see a sign of something.

Supporting the bird's natural immune response. Not interfering with that by killing all the bacteria before the bird has a chance to develop that response.

Using what the bird has already in their body to keep them healthy: their own bacteria.

Keeping the basics in place: age-appropriate and fresh food kept cool when stored, used quickly. Not feeding birds weird things like shrimp tails, birthday cake, sugary foods. Remembering that "scratch" is for scratching around in the barn yard, not a diet. Keeping the water clean and free of anything at all. Sunshine being used as a disinfectant, and as a calcium absorbtion enhancer!

Picking up birds frequently and really looking at them. That way when you see something small, you can fix things before they're sick.

People weren't all raised with chickens - and they don't know these basics. They slip through the cracks, and birds get sick. But there's a lot to be said for the basics and how they will ensure success in a flock!

 

[lildinkem]

Natalie your right alot of us were not raised into a Poultry oriented family.
I am a kid from inner city New York. Moved out in Indy in the 70's. Didn't start in chickens till last spring.
Unknowingly, I learned a valueable chicken secret. I had bought a super great quality bird, I was very attached to him. He CAME with a respitory illness. And absolutely not caring for any birds I had already hatched, during the frigid Indiana winter, I brought this bird into the ONLY warm area my wife would let me have him. My brooder room. I was willing to sacrifice every little chick to save this glorious bird. When I told my chicken pal here in Indy what I did. He said that is a good thing I did. He has 44 years of live stock experience. He was taught be his grandpa, who raised chickens in the 1800's. He said that is exactly what old time farmers did to assure their future birds could build a resistance & tolerate the crud that is going around now. Back in the 1800's, there was no Tractor Supply, no needles or syringes. Unknowingly, outta lack of care for my younger chicks, and ONLY caring for my big buck bird I duplicated the way things were done for centuries.
This experience has opened my eyes to a much simpler, and LESS STRESSFUL way to chicken raising. I hate to have such a long post, BUT HOPEFULLY some of these ideas might open new young minds to how to raise chickens, so their experience will be as much fun as mine is now,

- Cod liver oil (for vitamin D deficiency)
- Oyster shell grit (for digestion)
- Dried crushed pumpkin seeds (Worms)
- Garlic (Worms, chest infection)
- Apple Cider vinegar (Worm and tonic, better calcium and Vit.D absorption)
- Cat food (protein)
- Tuna (protein)
- Egg yolk (protein)
- Honey (energy)
- Yoghurt (digestive tract)
- Grated apple (mineral and vitamin; coccidiosis)
- Baby rice/oats (Bulking in food mix)
- Back rescue remedy (Trauma)
- Orange, Rosemary, clove oils (fleas)
- Wormwood, tansy (immune booster)
- Olive oil (Sour crop, crop binding)
- Probiotics (harmful microbes)
- Baking soda (Crop flush - mix 1/2 cup in a pint of water and syringe it 3 x)
- Nettle (tonic)
- Vaseline (Scaly legs, frostbite, cut)
- Cayenne pepper (worm, coccidiosis)
- Colloidal silver (Anti fungal/viral/microbial)
- Sulphur dust (lice)
- Whey powder (Coccidiosis)
- Chickweed (Immune booster)
- Oregano oil (Immune booster)
- Peppermint, catnip, marigold oil (mite repellent)
- Diatamacious Earth or DE (Calcium, wormer, mite, prevent fly from hatching)
- Vitamin E oil (Molting stress, fertility problems)
- Hypericum (pain relief, nerve damage, stress and Marek)
- Cornstarch (cut)
- Pine tar (cannibalism)
- Black sunflower seeds (Worm)

Or per ailments, this gives us:
TONIC
*Vit. D deficiency: Cod liver oil, ACV
*Tonic: ACV, grated apple, nettle
* Calcium deficiency: AVC, Oyster shell, DE, Crushed eggshell
* Protein deficiency: Cat food, tuna, egg yolk
* Energy boost: honey
*Immune boost: Wormwood, Tansy, probiotics, colloidal silver, chickweed, oregano oil
DIGESTIVE TRACT
*Digestion problem: Oyster grit, yoghurt
*Bulk for medicine: Baby rice, baby oat
*Sour crop: Olive oil
*Crop binding: Olive oil
*Crop flush: Baking soda
PARASITES
*Worm: Pumpkin Seeds, garlic, ACV, cayenne pepper, DE, Black sunflower seeds
*Fleas: Orange/Rosemary/Clove oils
*Lice: Sulphur powder
*Mites: Peppermint, catnip, marigold oil, DE as repellent
*Fly: DE
ILLNESS
*Chest infection: garlic water
*Coccidiosis: Grated apple, cayenne pepper, whey powder
* Marek: Hypericum (I think it is the same as St John's wort)
OTHER
*Trauma: Bach Flower Rescue Remedy
*Cut: Vaseline, cornstarch, pine tar
*Frostbite: Vaseline
*Scaly leg: Vaseline
*Molting stress: All protein stuff, Vit. E
*Fertility: Vitamin E
*Pain relief: Hypericum
*Nerve damage: Hypericum
*Stress: Hypericum
*Cannibalism: All protein stuff

I don't use all of these, but many are CLASSIC chicken rasing ideas outta the distant past.