Java Thread

[Chickielady]

Nice. I think people are trying to developed Lavender color in several breeds right now.

I myself am into Crele....and have so far 2 lines, a Crele Chantecler, and a Crele Marans...far more fun than the plain jane lav orps.




This bee-utiful boy is a Crele Chantecler X Black Copper Marans...........and I am now giving him a few Silver Cuckoo hens just to see what happens..............

 

[Chickielady]

Some of us are very interested in Javas but we get frustrated by the "let's make a rainbow-colored java" approach when the Black and Mottled Javas still need a lot of work. So we don't post here as often as perhaps we should.

I have 22 Black Java chicks from Duane Urch that are a little over 12 weeks old. He's had that line of birds for a long time. I want to continue the line, improving them in terms of size and conformity with the Standard of Perfection. Turns out I got 5 pullets, 15 cockerels, and a couple I'm not sure about yet. I wasn't planning to cull anything for at least a year, but a 3:1 ratio of cockerels to pullets may require some creative culling as they mature. I have a lot of questions. I've been asking those questions on the Heritage Large Fowl thread instead of here, because those folks have been raising chickens for a long time, breed them to standard, and many of my questions are not necessarily java-specific.

I agree, if it is a different color than the SOP, it is not a Black Java is it ?
Javas come in 2 colors, Black & mottled.
So I have been told repeatedly by the java Gods.

 

[Chickielady]

Well, it is Backyard Chickens. Some people don't care what the chicken's body looks like as long as the bird looks nice in their yard. Or lays eggs. I live here in the South and there are people near me who could have a perfect Frankenchicken and they wouldn't care as long as laid eggs, crowed, or brooded chicks.
As long as they don't sell such a chicken as a Java to another, unsuspecting, person, I suppose that is their right...

Seriously, some people just want color, or some people just want BREAKFAST !!!!!!!
Others take on the challenge to change the breed to another color, which I totally understand !
It is a challenge, and it is work, and it takes so long !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But in the end, after grading....and grading for years, you end up with a new coloration...like the Lav Orps ( we did lav orps 4 years ago)
My challenge is not only a new color, but let's never forget fantastic lay, and large eggs.
Some new colorations do not lay worth a dime...and some have proved semi-fertile...a nice looking bird, but it is not going to give you breakfast.

 

[Chickielady]

Not sure what you mean by "established variety". White Javas are no longer accepted into the SOP by the APA. They were only accepted for a short time and were removed from the SOP approx. 100 yrs ago. A White Java would be considered a "sport" color like the Auburn. (And there are some people that do not believe these other colors are even Javas, but I don't feel like getting into that can of worm at the moment.) This is the reason why there are so few people that have White Javas, much less standard-bred Javas.

There are some serious breeders that have made their own color standard for Whites and Auburns (all Javas should have the same body type), but there is no long term consistency yet in White Javas or Auburns as far as color variation because there is no SOP that people have been breeding to meet for the last 100+ years. Until more recent times, serious breeders culled birds that showed colors other than Black or Mottled because those were the only two colors to remain accepted by the APA. Black and Mottled Javas did manage to survive extinction by the skin of their teeth because a few people did continue to breed them to standard after the commercialization of the poultry industry. But even Blacks and Mottleds are comparatively rare and are not out of the woods to maintain good genetics for standard-bred birds to continue to reproduce for the future.

You are correct that many people don't care what their chicken looks like, as long as the chicken's feather color appeals to them. Which is perfectly fine. Serious chicken keeping and breeding is not for everyone.

Exactly...and Purists that have worked so hard to """Bring Back The Black Java""" are a bit miffed (to say the least) that some folks are breeding in other birds to get other colors.
There is no other way to get a different color, than to in breed.
No way, no how.

 

[Chickielady]

A group recently were going through the Garfield flock to choose breeding stock for both the Whites and the Blacks. They have said that they believe the Whites come from recessive genes.

There are breeders working on Whites, Auburns, Silvers, but until more of these birds breed true consistently, it will be difficult to get the APA to consider accepting them into the standard. Whites looked too much like other white chickens so they were removed from the SOP. Apparently there are still problems with getting the Whites to have a consistent leg color and which leg color would even become the one chosen to breed to.

Perhaps Mottleds would satisfy your Java desire and solve the problem of the other black chickens being around until you can obtain some Whites.

Mottled Javas are gorgeous !
My Bowen Line flock carries a few hens with the mottled gene, which is naturally occurring.
These hens (or Cocks) will have a light brown eye color) and breed 2 together, you have yourself a mottled flock start.




This photo shows both the dark eye & the light eye.
Light eyes without a camera flash appear light brown.
The SOP says a Black Java must have dark eyes, so I can never show this hen...but she does have that mottled gene lurking................




See her up on the top left ?
Compare to the others.

 

[Chickielady]

(I posted this earlier on the Heritage Large Fowl thread, but thought I'd copy it here for those of you who do not follow that thread.)

Here are some photos of my Black Javas from Duane Urch, at 13 weeks of age. Overall, I like these birds a lot. I weighed a few of them yesterday. The cockerels ranged from 3.5 to 4.5 pounds. The pullets ranged from 2.5 to 3.5 pounds. These photos were taken a little before sunset. All the birds had full crops, which makes them look more full in the breast than they really are at this stage.

Here you get a feel for the overall group. Yes, there are a lot of cockerels:




One of the cockerels. Not the best one, not the worst. Just one that stood relatively still for a photo:


Same cockerel from above. This bird narrows a bit toward the tail. A few birds have wider tails. Several have much narrower ones:



The only pullet photo I got. I like her tail width and her overall shape. But she is one of the smallest pullets - around 2.5 pounds at 13 weeks:



Another cockerel, again neither the best nor the worst in the batch. His back does normally slope down toward the rear - it's more level in the photo because he was turning around. It looks like he has a slight hump in the back line. Several birds in this flock have that slight "hump," but I haven't decided if it is an illusion or if it's a real structural issue:



Same cockerel, from above:



And another cockerel. This one has a straighter slope to his back, which I like. I also like the curve of his head. His earlobe seems large, which I don't like. He's one of the medium-size cockerels:



And some more cockerels. The one on the left is one of the largest and I like its keel depth, length of back and general head shape, but its feet have white soles. Couldn't get a good photo of him:


And last but not least, one of my mystery birds. A friend of mine who also raises javas was trying to make this bird into a pullet a week or so ago. I've thought all along that it's a slow-maturing cockerel. He does have a small comb that looks more like the pullet combs, but he also has very large shanks and he is beginning to develop pointy hackle feathers. And his voice is hoarser than the pullets' voices. Time will tell. This is one of two birds in the 22 bird flock that actually has the dark eyes that Black Javas are supposed to have. He doesn't look quite as pinched in the tail in person as he does in this photo, but his tail is narrower than I would like. He is so different from the rest of the birds I am very curious to see what he looks like when he is mature. I say "he" but I won't make any bets on what this bird is until it crows or lays an egg:



I welcome any comments you have about these birds - particularly about their type issues. I have a long way to go in terms of developing an "eye" for type.

Sarah
ReplyQuote Multi

Nice long backs on those birds !

 

[Chickielady]

I have mottled java hatching eggs in my incubator. I got them from someone that shows their javas and have good show results. The dad of my chicks won BOB in 2011. My question is that I'm having a difficult time finding the SOP for the mottled Java. Can someone tell me what to look for in a SQ mottled java? We are interested in breeding to SOP and bringing this heritage bird back. My daughter, who is 9, shows her chickens and is very dedicated to this cause.

Monte sent these to me, I am forwarding them on...hopefully they do not put me in the PEN for posting.

I might add, post some photos of your daughter's birds, and I'll try & talk Java Cock into coming back on & tell you what he thinks !

*******************************Click on any Photo to see an enlarged copy *********************************************

 

[suncatcher]

Quote: Very nice!

 

[Chickielady]

Very nice!

Thanks !
We have been so busy (now painting the exterior before the rain comes back here) and wiring & insulation in our house build, that I have hardly any time to ship eggs, sell birds or get on line, so I have removed a few ads.
Those of you who were wanting eggs, e-mail Monte Bowen or you can still e-mail me, I have not a minute to get on BYC.

 

[wildboutchicken]

Thank you Chickielady for the information. I will post pics when the chicks hatch and as they grow. We have 13 more days until hatch day. I asked my husband and children to get me the APA SOP book for Mother's Day. It will give me all the info I need from a book. I will get the rest here. I'm very glad I joined BYC. There are so many nice people and so much information on this site. Thanks to everyone.