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No argument in this at all.
You don't always cull as in kill the birds that survive. If you have ones with no symptoms surrounded by the dead and dying, if the ones that live thru this live and produced viable offspring, those are the ones that are carriers of the disease (that's a negative for sure, but hey, how else do they get immunity but from surviving the exposure, right!), but now have natural immunity, disease resistance and live. I will cull as in kill the ones showing the extended leg form of the disease, in my experience, you can hand feed/water but by the time the disease is at this stage, in my experiences, it is a hopeless case and you cause undue pain and suffering...my opinion--others say they have done the coddling but I won't extend a life when I see the quality of life is not warranting it...tough love, put out of suffering.
The partially blind form of MD, I have some birds that are like seven years of age and still thriving along. They are not in the main flocks (would be easy victims for fully seeing birds...that would be cruel to let them be beat up) and not in the Duece Coop to infect brooded birds but my attitude is "die and get it over with already" if you don't have the natural immunity. Not exposing them at ages they cannot handle it, like as day olds, but a few weeks old and if the stocks are not able to deal with MD, I prefer they show symptoms and I can humanely dispatch of them or they can just go tits up already and die. Sounds creepy ugly but then you need to realize, maybe 3% of the hundreds of birds we have now get sick. Three percent and mortality in normal chickens to adult hood is round about seven percent...so to me that is pretty low.
We have to advise others of our predicament...that we either vaccinate for it, we don't have Marek's, or we have carriers that live thru it and our birds will then be vectors of the disease to ones that don't have MD. I make it well known that my chooks are carriers of MD...of at least one form of it and they could infect others' flocks that don't have the version ours are immune to.
We had those awesome quality White Silkies and Silver Sebrights...I mean the Silkies were of the type you could not tell gender off...finally if one crowed or laid an egg you may know male or female...make a fist and that was the strutty lil' soldier type perfectly laced Sebrights we had...lil' laced up beauties. No matter, brought home after waiting three years for them, Mille de Fleur Booteds...my DREAM chicken breed and variety. These were my choice solely...the little dotty dots I wanted EVER so badly. Well what a nightmare began then. The breeder of these birds was getting out of them completely, so we bought their breeding stock. Met her at a location between here and there and she said, "Oh and BTW, I have one that was stepped on. You can have that one for free because we know that Tara will doctor it up as good as new!" "OK...?" And yeh, I did doctor the dang thing up...hand fed and watered, but hey, suddenly the chickens in the pen over from them started to extend their one leg just like this one was...MAREK'S DISEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It spread like wildfire...Sebrights started up and just dying, Silkies, extended leg...and all the while, the one sick one lived (to spread more of the infected dander on our premises!!). When one of the MDF Booteds went down and died, I had a discussion with Rick. Had a sick Silkie alive (the MDF one that had been stepped on had died finally--what a cruel existence because I "thought" it had a hurt leg injury, not a death sentence of suffering!)...and one dead Silkie in the freezer. Go to our BEST vet and have them autopsied...there are just too many disorders that sorta kinda sound like MD...we had to KNOW for sure what exactly I had brought in with my "must have these" MDF Booteds.
So four hour round trip to best vet, $200 for the pathologist reports and that be that. Mareck's Disease we had.
Next in the journey of learning, what to do. My vet says to us, we can vaccinate but "H" "Oh" Hockey Sticks--back then, we only ever natural hatched, no artificial incubation period at all...so that meant, we had one clutch at a time being hatched...loved that totally, especially at times like Christmas and New Years, have a setty hen hatch out a brood for us to "ooh" and "aah" over...and timing there, lots of time to oogle chickies in winter time--enjoy them to the fullest. So my vet says, well a vial will do like, think it is something astounding like 1,000 birds?? I forget but alot and was about, what $20. Had no issue of the twenty bucks but how ugly the "natural" hatching of teeny tiny batches of chicks would be...ruined because I would have to remind myself of Marek's every time I vaccinated the babies, each time, you are doing this because you made a fatal mistake and brought home MD and this is the recourse you do, each and every time you have new baby chicken chicks...you have to vaccinate them because YOU chose this. To me it was a constant reminder of my flub up...that straw that broke the camel's back kinda scenario. Me, myself and I had caused this mishap...before this, no Marek's, and I just HAD to do that, eh, bring it on home in birds I just had to have. Oh well, as the years go by, I realize, it was only a matter of time before Marek's would have paid us a visit.
Blown in on the winds, come home on my hair--yes, chore clothes & shoes are separate from town and work ones but I don't always, always wash my hair ... after a bird show or action--certainly, but not every single day (since I drive bus, that means wash hair after morning run, wash hair after afternoon run and if we went to town, wash hair again...ack...that is alot of washing of self!) and that would have to be your protocol if you were clean clean, eh!
What my vet wanted to know is do I want to vaccinate or let things go along with breeding for natural resistance. I asked what percentage can die and he said sometimes as high as eighty-five percent (and in the case of Sebrights and Silkies, 100% mortality...none live...it is blood type I suspect is their issue, recall that Sebrights were produced by inbreeding for 25 years--that screams as to why Sebrights have no chance to survive MD...not sure on why Silkies die so badly but maybe the feather type...maybe because the dander is the infectious part? Dunno). We chose to do the natural resistance breeding...I had two MDF Booteds, a pair that survived the carnage...the birds dropping left and right, and I had ONE PAIR...Milley and Guy...and I based my Booteds on that pair.
Guy (la Fleur) & Millicent (Milley--lived to be 8 years old) - Booted Bantams in the Mille de Fleur variety
Another issue of mine, inbreeding...well all my Booteds for years now have come from these two birds--descended from this pair...I have about 40 Booteds as of today and these are inbred like no tomorrow. Inbreeding to this degree, that totally goes against my educated stance and they thrive despite the heavy inbreeding...so I learned TWO things, maybe three things with my MDF Booteds...inbreeding of good birds makes more good birds...no fertility issues, lots of eggs, robust, thriving, healthy, looking good birds...yikes, eh! And that Marek's can be beat if you are willing to breed from the healthy survivors, and lastly that NEVER EVER accept a sick bird...no matter what the person trying to give you them says happened..."take that thing and get it away as far from me as possible!" A sick bird, a sick dog, a sick sheep, goat, whatever...you bring that home and your duty of care to the critters you already have is blown to smitherines...NOPE, never...no sick animals come here ever again...to be doctored by me and spread the misery here. That lesson was the most heartless of my lessons bar none...and the most protective stance I can have. There is compassion and empathy and then just being stupid!
So you ask what to do if you have NO BIRDS that are MD resistant...keep trying I guess by bringing in some new ones. We dropped the Silkies and Sebrights...those two are breeds that one is DOOMED quite literally to the high scale biosecurity issues (how do you stop the wind from blowing troubles on your place, eh?) and vaccination as best you are able.
Keep it foremost in your minds...like kennel cough in dogs...there are many STRAINS or forms of Marek's...and one vaccine may cover some, but not always all. And with the latest studies...icrumba...is there vaccines in the works...are there ALL VERSIONS of the vaccines for the new more virile strains? Well is there?
I know one vet, took Makins for Bordetella nose drops (kennel cough), then six weeks later for the booster (many don't vaccinate against KC and many more never booster the initial vaccine), then three weeks off to our first dog show. Badump bump--she got kennel cough...I was devastated because I had told Rick, yes, we are covered for that and there she was, sick...went back to same vet and got the low down AFTER doing what I had been lead down the garden path over. Makins was not covered for ALL the kinds of Kennel Cough (not too dangerous a disease, may kill the old and young but Makey Makes was young and strong...but she still got sick at MY decision...ME caused this...I hate that!). This vet (who btw, was afraid of ACDs...afraid of Makins the sweeter than a Labrador Retriever Makins!) is no long my vet. Then she tried to sell me basically a can of rice for five bucks when I could have cooked up the same kind of meal myself for Makins' tender tummy and get her thru the kennel cough. NOT my vet no more's eh...but I digress...
Like the human flu vaccine, the Marek's one is sorta like that in the fact they probably compile up the latest expected versions of the diseases/viruses and there you be. How many years do we hear the human flu shot is not covering what they predicted...and people are dropping like flies or getting ill and staying that way for like three weeks at a crack--blicky! I had the flu vac once and I got sick anyway...that was enough for me and now hearing that in some cases we are making worse versions of these disorders....oh hold me back!
I don't bother with the human flu vaccines and I am in a very highly infections job...school bus driver--not only do I get exposed to all the school children on my run, when I go to the "school bus driver" meetings, each driver represents 50 or so children and all those persons represent a very good expanse of what is harboured in the school district. Beauty eh...I guess what don't outright kill yah, makes you strong <<but smell ain't everything, eh?>>
Aug 5 2015 - Bite...bite yer face, bite the toy...BITE the DAY, eh!
I have a bazillion photos of pups in the works and the fella delivering the metal has still not called me back...said he was "operating a fork lift" when I called him, so not sure how long he is in dispose but I got photos and now fidgety puppers at my feets...posting this here & now...
Aug 6 2015 - sleeping angels
Aug 7 2015 - the Dog Dog crew sleeps at lawn chair side!
Pups are ON or OFF--no in-betweens.
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
