Jest Another Day in Pear-A-Dice - Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm in Alberta

[chickisoup]

Thoughts anyone?
Kind of reminds me of the old song, "Tennessee Bird Walk"

 

[CanuckBock]

The soccer ball must have recessive duck traits...

Please don't hit me with the yardstick again teach...

I don't think it was me that hit you if hittin' is what you felt ...the only yardsticks round here are Rick's...

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And well, not so sure I can even untangle them let alone get a grip and manage any sorted HIT with one of them...hee hee. You are SAFE from the likes of moi! For now...

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Course you'll have gotten this riddle no problemo...

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Now if it was a whisking you had received...heh heh heh...

Or
Is the soccer balls holding recessive traits and the duck is holding all the dominant traits?

Yuppers...the opposite of recessive is dominant...so in this particular case, one has to have the dominant trait and the other has the recessive one. Not incompletely dominant (or incompletely recessive) to each other.

Good show. Especially for a Smart Aleck...eh.

Gonna hafta don my recently purchased monster hat and keep an extra eye on you Henny...and Scott too. Got some pretty smarty pants in the crowd here. Gonna hafta be on my bestest behaviours...

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I find it kinda confusing when someone says, dominant or recessive, as in Simply Dominant or Simply Recessive because it means the SAME things!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_(genetics):
Now my access to server space is too late in the day to post my examples of this and go along further when we cross F1 with F1 (fun times!), so I will get that in a bit here when I am able.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[CanuckBock]

Thoughts anyone?
Kind of reminds me of the old song, "Tennessee Bird Walk"

To be perfectly honest...I had to google the words...

'Tennessee Bird Walk' by Jack Blanchard & Misty Morgan: Yeh, now that I am reading them... yeh...totally! HILARIOUS!

 

[scottcaddy]

Quote: Yeh, now that I am reading them... yeh...totally! HILARIOUS!

Scott

 

[CanuckBock]

Heel low:

OK...time for recessive soccerball (hee hee...so hilarious!)...

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The P1 parent DUCK is D/D and the P1 parent SOCCERBALL is s/s (ah HA...the lower cased letters of "s" hint that they are gonna be recessive to the dominant capital letters of "D")...

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So our breeding equation is D/D x s/s = D/s....that be the genotype equation.

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and the phenotype, is DUCK x soccer = DUCK (with a hidden soccerball, eh!)

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And here are our VISUAL AIDS (FTDs!)...just placing the wubber ducks and soccerball over the genotype to show visually the phenotype of the crossing. YAH!!!!

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Now we get to do the BIG BAD Punnett Square...whoo...scared yet...HARDLY!

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Move the P1 parents, DUCK and soccerball to their places and Peoples...let's start up our engines, ahem non-permanent felt makers (not toxic but still dangerous in the WRONG hands)....

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Yee haw and slop the...the chickens (or is dat ducks?)....So under the P1 boy/father soccerball, we place two small and lower cased "s"'s. Beside the P1 girl/mother duck...we place two capital large lettered "D"'s...ready for the next step...or is that waddle and roll. Are we talking about old persons' silhouettes going down the lane or...never mind...back to the task at hand here...

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Now haven't WE all picked up some speed, speediness here....I have zipped along armed with my non-toxic dry erase felt pen and put in the small "s" and the big "D" ... right down and across the Punnett Square board (never bored, never boring...always FUN!)... So much breezier doing this in one big shot instead of arrows telling you where to go and how to go about it...sheesh...we are just making like the birds eh...

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And now for the drumroll of the phenotype for those four D/s...they all appear to be just, just uh, DUCKS...ah but DUCKS indeed...with hidden virtues...the simply recessive soccerball trait...whooo...afraid? You should be fer now I am gonna suggest we see what taking these four F1's, all the same genetically speaking as D/s...and take two of the F1's and breed them, do what is called an in breeding.

We are going to cross a brother with a sister and keep that in mind when you contemplated that breeding.

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So above is the two F1's that will now be P1's to the F2 (second filial) generation... Take note, that the phenotype of those TWO (misrepresenting the duck image they portray, eh) ducks do not even whisper that underneath all that DUCKNESS, they hold hidden, the small "s" for...dun dun DUN....SOCCERBALL! Yikes...

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So I have taken the leave to move the two heterozygous (just means differing alleles, as in this case the D/s, not homozygous as in D/D or s/s) P1 looking like DUCKS (dangerous sporting ducks with soccerballs hidden to LEAP on out and scare us..."BOO!") to their crossing positions AND put their breeding genotype in the square, the "D: and the "s."

Soooo...someone wanna complete the Punnett Square above so we can start talking about the outcome and what their baby bambinos will L00K like? Pretty please with a healthy dash of "homework" credits to yer handle, eh?

Now a word before I trip trop off to drive the creul bus for the morning runaway silliness...

About the unhealthy implications of crossing sister to brother...as we are doing here...it is called incest for a reason...and that usually conjures up a bad feeling and so it should...ACK!

It is much wiser to cross a P1 parent with a F1 progeny because you are guaranteed that the parent you are using has only EVER donated half their own genetics to their offspring (same to same genetics makes for INbreeding depression--there is also what is labelled OUTcrossing depression too)...see, does that now make sense on why it is less of an inbreeding to do this one. If you chose to breed sister to brother....because they share the SAME PARENTS, there is a possibility (pretty rare but still a possibility) that the two siblings share IDENTICAL genetics because both the parents could have contributed the exact same genetics to the two kids. A sis and bro has the highest chance of being identicals, but when ONE of the parents is chosen to be bred to the progeny, that parent only ever has contributed HALF of the genetic makeup of that kid.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding_depression:

AND then the opposite of INbreeding depression... OUTcrossing depression...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outbreeding_depression:

I do have to laugh as everything should be done in MODERATION...too much of anything can be hazardous...and outbreeding is not often as well known as inbreeding as in the DEPRESSION aspect...so read that up and learn from it. Too much of anything is never gonna end up being GOOD!

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[scottcaddy]

Heel low:

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So I have taken the leave to move the two heterozygous (just means differing alleles, as in this case the D/s, not homozygous as in D/D or s/s) P1 looking like DUCKS (dangerous sporting ducks with soccerballs hidden to LEAP on out and scare us..."BOO!") to their crossing positions AND put their breeding genotype in the square, the "D: and the "s."

Soooo...someone wanna complete the Punnett Square above so we can start talking about the outcome and what their baby bambinos will L00K like? Pretty please with a healthy dash of "homework" credits to yer handle, eh?

Now a word before I trip trop off to drive the creul bus for the morning runaway silliness...

About the unhealthy implications of crossing sister to brother...as we are doing here...it is called incest for a reason...and that usually conjures up a bad feeling and so it should...ACK!

It is much wiser to cross a P1 parent with a F1 progeny because you are guaranteed that the parent you are using has only EVER donated half their own genetics to their offspring (same to same genetics makes for INbreeding depression--there is also what is labelled OUTcrossing depression too)...see, does that now make sense on why it is less of an inbreeding to do this one. If you chose to breed sister to brother....because they share the SAME PARENTS, there is a possibility (pretty rare but still a possibility) that the two siblings share IDENTICAL genetics because both the parents could have contributed the exact same genetics to the two kids. A sis and bro has the highest chance of being identicals, but when ONE of the parents is chosen to be bred to the progeny, that parent only ever has contributed HALF of the genetic makeup of that kid.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding_depression:

AND then the opposite of INbreeding depression... OUTcrossing depression...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outbreeding_depression:
In biology, outbreeding depression occurs when offspring from crosses between individuals from different populations have lower fitness than progeny from crosses between individuals from the same population. The concept is opposed to inbreeding depression. This phenomenon can occur in two ways.

First, intermediate genotypes may be disfavored. For example, selection in one population might produce a large body size, whereas in another population small body size might be more advantageous. Gene flow between these populations may lead to individuals with intermediate body sizes, which may not be adaptive in either population. It might be that, in a certain environment, having either a large or a small body is advantageous, whereas an intermediate-sized body is comparatively disadvantageous.

A second cause of outbreeding depression may be the breakdown of biochemical or physiological compatibilities between genes in the different breeding populations. Within local, isolated breeding populations, alleles are selected for their positive, overall effects on the local genetic background. Due to nonadditive gene action, the same genes may have rather different average effects in different genetic backgrounds-- hence, the potential evolution of locally coadapted gene complexes. On the other hand, according to the overdominance hypothesis in genetics, it is believed that certain combinations of alleles (which can only be obtained by outbreeding) are especially advantageous when paired in a heterozygous individual, which is one explanation for the existence of hybrid vigor.

A third, but neutral, effect of outbreeding is the loss of allopatric speciation of a particular group, that lends its distinctness and contributes to the diversity of said types in either group by the exclusive retention of select traits.

I do have to laugh as everything should be done in MODERATION...too much of anything can be hazardous...and outbreeding is not often as well known as inbreeding as in the DEPRESSION aspect...so read that up and learn from it. Too much of anything is never gonna end up being GOOD!

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada
Good Morning Tara,
Here is my take on it, maybe I'm right , maybe not.



Hope you have a nice bus morning!
My DW also drives a school bus.


Scott

 

[CanuckBock]

Good Morning Tara,
Here is my take on it, maybe I'm right , maybe not.



Hope you have a nice bus morning!
My DW also drives a school bus.


Scott

Good afternoon Scott and completely correctomundo! AWESOME...that is two outta two...perfection!

Very NEAT that the spouse is also a bus person...love my retirement job totally.

The morning and afternoon run jive with my schedule here on the ranch...I mean there are times where I think...the two runs in a day are just wonderful. Up in the morn, get some things completed then it is time to run off to do the morning run, then home, lots of things to do, by about the time I would like a nice break...well golly, it is afternoon run time. Off you go, then back home and yeh...most weekdays you work, but the holidays and weekends are yours...jest totally excellent. You have to be home during the week and that is great if you are not a world traveller like we are not. Nothing ever longer than a day trip planned pretty much far in advance. We do that already so it works for our family.

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I don't have to wear a business office get up and go to it suit (though a monkey hat would go over swell with the younger bus crowd!), no nylons, no pinchy type uncomfy shoes, no dry cleaning bills or hassles to remember to go to pick it up, no elaborate hair and makeup, no packing a lunch (have mine at home; nicer, cheaper, more variety!), and best of the best...NO transportation costs TO and FROM work. Transport is my JOB...yuppers, and that is one of the reasons why we could justify buying the tractor. That is our second "vehicle" in the family because I simly don't need one to get to and from work with. WELL OK--tractors CAN be your preferred mode of travel in certain circumstances...if'n I wanna pull an old Possum's trick on the tactics of "Take MY truck keys & think you'll grounded me!"... Seen only three concerts in my lifetime...First one was George and Tammy...awesome!

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When the kids start riding the bus, they are at the perfect age (normally we don't have NO diapers to change, eh!) and always so cute...love watching them grow up, at arm's length--my job to get the to and from school and home! Even BETTER than a Grandparent because they arrive at the bus from the house already prepped for the day, I get to scoop them up at night (the kindergarten ones make me beam...usually asleep not five minutes into the afternoon run...WAY too much intensity fer their little selves, eh!) and deliver them back on home. Give them a safe and happy start and end to their school days...they give me the pleasure of watching them grow up and be a good addition to the community.

I like driving, find it fun, amusing and entertaining and the country side I drive through is amazing...the four seasons, the wildlife (like the pets too but at safe distance OFF the road and away from the bus wheels!), gotta pinch myself that I get PAID to do my route...it is gorgeous out in the wilds of the hills.

It helps too when our spare buses look like this...eh!

Yee haw, now that's a KEWL BUS...​

"Yeh Transport Department? You're saying that my regular bus is done its service...want me to come get it...Nah...Nope, you can keep my regular bus for a bit longer...I be needing this one fer more than a few days."...Varooom!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This one is a good one too to have when they are out reworking our back country roads...I know I am gonna get there and back!

See the police car lights way up on the top...wonder how LEGAL that is???
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I like this one too...vintage Chev...

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This one is great for inclement weather...winds can blow, ice can make it slippy but if we go tippy...not so bad with an extra set of wheels on the opposite side...

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OK...enough funning about the wheels on the bus go round and round...

Where were we...oh yes...Scott had once again ACED his homework assignment...with flying colours...WAHOO!!

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So yuppers...Scott's much nicer and neater completed Punnett Square totally jives as the outcomes for the expected genotypes.

Here now is what the phenotype would look like.

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We have an outcome of three ducks that look like, uh ducks and one very suspicious looking SOCCER duck.

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This pic above, I just moved the ducky duck kids/progeny to the side so you may see both the genotypes for each phenotype...got the one soccerball there to show the HIDDEN aspect of the "s" for recessive SOCCERBALL trait. Hiding...

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Jiving totally with Scott's answer to the RATIO of the genetics...

We have 1 D/D, 2 D/s, 1 s/s in the GENOtype and in the short form we can write the ratio as 1:2:1 and many that use Punnett Squares get to recognized that an outcome ratio that says "1:2:1" would hint that a completely dominant trait had been crossed with a completely recessive trait.


So wonderful perfect work Scott...nicely done...

Now some of the things we should go over and review about that last breeding.

The duck progeny that is D/D would look completely like the duck progeny that is D/s...this can be dangerous...because when you allow a breeding like this to happen where both parents happen to be hiding a recessive trait...you look at the P1 parents and think...just a "DUCK" for each one you selected. But from what we just did, nope, the kids tell on the two parents that BOTH of them must be hiding a recessive trait (allele we said was "s") for SOCCERBALL under their DUCKness trait (allele we said was "D"). Once a s/s soccerduck appears...it screams...hidden recessive soccerball in the line!

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Remember looking at this...there are all these DUCKS there and ONE SOCCER DUCK...sticking out like a sore thumb!

It can be quite shocking to be going about setting up duck breeding pens with a pair thinking, "Yup, gonna start counting my ducks before they all hatch out and BAM...there's this strange SOCCER duckling where you figured you could count on 100% outcome of your breeding being just, well more of the proper duck DUCKS!" Worse yet to send off say a set of hatching eggs from two parents that you swore were DUCKS...not everyone would be very pleased if they were counting their own purchased hatching eggs and there comes out this black and white monstrosity! Some receivers of the "tainted" clutch may be outraged and then you the Breeder can look like an idiot, course all puzzled yourself because you SWEAR no Soccer Ball ever graced the inside of THAT particular pen...!!! Hee hee...but quite frankly, that is what HIDDEN recessives are like. Hiding...and the more you breed and produce progeny from the birds you own, the more chances you will have a thing like a Soccer-Duck popping on out for you to discover and know about. To me, this is just you learning what your original birds are all about. It is a given until you have taken a line of birds and breed them at least THREE generations (with inbreeding of those lines) down the line...you do not really have a feel for what the birds you have are made up of genetically speaking.

Any idiot can look at the ducks HIDING that soccer recessive and say, "Yup, dem is DUCKS!" No insight, no knowledge of what is in them ducks genetically speaking...not until you begin rolling up yer sleeves, breeding, tracking the results and after three generations, then you begin to really see what your choices of which birds to breed together is producing. You can tell if your breeding selections are going where you want but usually best to try out three generations and then review it all...better safe than sorry...

Now just because statistically, we have figured out that ONE in FOUR of the babies should reveal and show the hidden recessive SOCCER trait...don't always count on that being the case. You could literally breed up and produce 100 eggs from the two P1 F1 generation parents with one hidden trait and NEVER have one F2 Soccer-Duck make an appearance. Not likely statistically, but hey, don't be donning the tinfoil hat and going out in the lightening storm any time soon thinking you are safe and beating the odds...things DO happen that go against all the odds and even a 25% chance or a 1 outta 4 outcome...can be surprisingly elusive at happening.

One of the safest replies to do you have a hidden recessive in your line is to say, I have never SEEN it revealed...and that is that...because all it takes is ONE Soccer-Duck to reveal itself and you have to go backwards from that outcome. Who where the parents of the Soccer-Duck...both will have a hidden recessive for the trait in them...who were the parents to those two ducks with the hidden recessive for Soccerball...and back you go down the lines.

Now not all hidden recessives are bad...in fact alot of mutations from wild type that happen are neutral, neither causing good or bad...just there. So don't get caught in the trap of where someone speaking about a "hidden recessive" in their lines is some BAD gossip...it could be the most awesome new thing to happen.

Take the incident with white moths and dark moths...in the Peppered moths (Biston betularia)...back during the Industrial Revolution (1760 to ~ 1840's), we humans dirtied up the environment and caused an evolutionary benefit in the moth population to benefit one colour over another. Basically the more common white moth could no longer hide in the blackened environment...so birds snagged the white ones over the darker ones...leaving alot of darker moths to breed and make more of the same...think this is old news, HA! If you read below...there is a new scientific study published in...2012! Finally proving with huge back up documentation, that this indeed was what happened.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution:


So I chose to post a silly breeding of duck to soccerball to give y'all a clear cut example of what harm, good or neutral something being simply recessive could cause.

So think on this. Wild duck population out and about in a natural setting of a swampy piece of land, jest being ducks. Along comes some humans, decide that they need to make a soccer field outta a swamp where only swampy critters like ducks habituated. Well holy moley...suddenly the more natural duck ducks are easily seen; flapping, waddling, preening on the grassy oasis that use to be a swamp...but for some strange reason, the rare and elusive SOCCER-Duck suddenly has an evolutionary advantage over the wild type Natural patterned coloured ducks. Nobody puts the run on these Soccer-Ducks, because, well on the recently drained swamp turned soccer field, what could be more NATURAL than for soccer type coloured camo'd ducks to be blending in with the rest of the sports paraphernalia often strewed about on the soccer field, eh?

Being a Soccer-Duck now suddenly has immense advantages...

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Now in normal circumstances, a duck coloured like a soccer ball would stand out in a swamp like a sore thumb...black and white is the most vivid contrast of colour extremes and black & white sure POPS to the eyes on a green field or floating amongst the cattails in the swamp...so a Soccerball duck colour pattern could be evilly very BAD...in a swamp.

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When a duck has only one dose of the soccerball allele (genetics), then that duck looks just, like a duck...and can go about living its life neutral to the hidden recessive soccer ball genetics. No plus or minus of one dose of soccerball colour pattern for the duck. Now its kids, mind you, if lined up with another hidden soccerball carrying duck, then it is no longer a neutral mutation when doubled up to reveal itself in all its blinding WHITE & BLACK pattern.

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Heh heh heh....so you believe any of this scenario of an actual recessive soccer ball hidden mutation...

Well golly if'n yah do...I got me a few bridges too that I could offer up for sale...good buy, cheap cheapy...let me get drawing you up an ownership certificate, title transfer should make it all look very ligit...WAH WAH WAH HA! FTD!

So I seriously do hope you see why I have chosen such a make believe thing to boot about, kick around and simply laugh on. It is a real easy way to see something with new eyes that mighta stumped you in the past, maybe you found boring but with such a very silly hypothesis, now wasn't that just a plumb lotta fun to do and read about? Silly as silly ever was and fun too. Learning made fun is less painful and it is always, always about how much FUN we can have eh. Or why did we bother.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Wisher1000]

Genetic Knowledge is POWER

Fear The Duck!

 

[scottcaddy]

I like your new Avatar, too bad any hen that can see you will think of dinner and, not the nice chatty Lady we all know and love!
Scott

 

[Wisher1000]

Thanks, Scott! I didn't even think of it as a cricket.....I was taking the "Wish upon a star" route. Your hen and dinner comment took a minute to sink in, but then I laughed.