BTW was good to see Foamy again. How old is she?
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Hi Tara
I was just reading your excellent post on Chantecler color over on th BYC color genetics thread. Greats stuff. Have an additional question, please. Excerpt: " In 1908, Bro Wilfrid chose to use White Leghorn females (dominant white) and White Wyandottes (recessive white) on both sides of the two F1 lines during the development of this composite breed. After APA recognition in 1921, the Frère diverged from the SOP Whites and later added White Rhode Island to form the honourable Oka strain of White Chanteclers. "
Question what is the kind of white in the White Rhode Island ?
Thanks,
Karen
Tara after reading some of the cattle dog incidents, I'm hoping they don't get a rep like Pit bulls - where people get them just to have the toughest dog on the block.
BTW was good to see Foamy again. How old is she?
Reworded question, how long have you had Foamy?
SINGLE COMB - White Booted Bantam hen
SINGLE COMBS - on my dark skinned white feathered project Booted Bantam females
DAY OLD CHOOKS....
NOW l00kit the day olds...see the SERATIONS...look at the points! That should instantly scream at you...SINGLE COMBEven moi with my glass pop bottle glasses...I can SEE the serrations on the single combs...instantly knowing, tis a single combed bird.![]()
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PEA COMB
Pea comb as per APA SOP...
2010 APA SOP, page 7:Article 1 - Combs & Wattles in the Chantecler Chicken
http://www.wolven.ca/higgins/ratranch/articles.htm:
PEA COMB - Bantam Dark Brahma male
DAY OLD CHOOKS....
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ROSE COMB
Rose comb as per APA SOP...
2010 APA SOP, page 7:
(4) Rose: A solid, broad, nearly flat on top, low fleshy comb, termination in a well developed tapering spike, which may turn upwards as in Hamburgs, is nearly horizontal in Rose Comb Leghorns; or follow the contour of the head in Wyandottes. Top surface of the main part should be slightly convex and studded with small rounded protuberances. General shape varies in different breeds.
How does one know one has taken WAY too many clicks of the chooks?
Abomination recognized colour variety wise (cuckoo barred dude), BUT good comb for a Wyandotte, eh
Leader on this left side closest to us cockerel is not correct for the Wyandotte breed, leader does not follow contour of head.
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Article 1 - Combs & Wattles in the Chantecler Chicken
http://www.wolven.ca/higgins/ratranch/articles.htm:
ROSE COMB - bantam Golden Laced Wyandotte pullet
NOTE: Smoother comb top than above male
DAY OLD CHOOKS....
The KEY component to note on the IDing of a rose combed possessing chicken...the catch is the POINT at the top of the comb...helps one immensely! I personally have viewed sanctioned judges put up Chantelcers that possessed a very, very suspicious POINT on the top of their combs...that is NOT a cushion comb then...this a ROSE COMB!
Cushion comb has block end on it for a reason, eh. NO POINT--got my point?![]()
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CUSHION COMB
Proper Chantecler Cushion Combs
Cushion comb as per APA SOP...
General definition of the Cushion Comb...
2010 APA SOP, page 7:
Chantecler BREED definition for comb...
COMBS on Chant MALE
- American Poultry Association’s (APA) poultry Standard (both standard and bantam stock) says:
The square shape, the no point, the smooth surface...got it???![]()
The TRANSVERSE GROOVE...
The ever important but not wanted for the birds to be exhibited...the transverse groove is part and parcel in a Cushion Comb...
Article 1 - Combs & Wattles in the Chantecler Chicken
http://www.wolven.ca/higgins/ratranch/articles.htm:
Note the above photo of a Chantecler Partridge Standard hen…there is a genetic explanation for this comb. Do you know it? If not, that is perfectly OK, but judges need to be aware of this when judging our Chanties…and we as breeders and exhibitors also need to know about this.
Dr. W.C. Carefoot, M.Sc., Ph.D.; Creative Poultry Breeding; “Malays, of course, have a “walnut” comb, sometimes called strawberry comb, which is caused by the interaction of both rose and pea mutations, i.e. is R, P. A walnut comb is low, solid and moderately small, with several surface conformations and variations. An unusual feature of the walnut comb is that it often has a shallow transverse groove separating the rear third from the front two thirds of the comb. In newly hatched chicks there are frequently small bristle like hairs which help in the detection of the walnut comb. The Silkie has made a virtue of the transverse groove in its breed standard which requires a shortened walnut comb; shortened to allow room for the crest.”
NOTE: In my experiences thus far in assessing day old Chanteclers for perfect cushion combs, you do have to continue to make ongoing assessments. Some combs do appear as cushion and later develop to have multiple points at the top tip, or other imperfections like lumps and bumps, etc. Wattles may appear small, smooth textured and in the correct potential shape and grow into wrinkly, large (these continue to grow, especially in the males…so just show them as young birds!), misshapen pendulous flappers!
Fairly good comb with nice wattles, Chants must have wattles
Horrific comb...the three points on top...this one was culled and none of these genetics ever entered my strains!
Nasty as this line had wry tail, wry neck, miscolours in white plumage, v-shaped...
The comb expression just helped seal the deal for me on not using the line!
Point on end of comb...got bristles and looks OK otherwise...
Could this be a sign this male is a single dose for rose or pea comb??
Know that heat is exchanged via the face gear...a large comb would assist a chicken in getting rid of excess heat...but all in good moderation...because come winter, a big set of head gear is what can get frozen and hurt something awful!
Realize that you will be able to identify a cushion comb, but often past maybe the possession of a transverse groove, one of the BIG reasons why you only EVER use cocks and hens for breeding...by living to two years of age, you can validate they are disease resistant to what you have at home...they can have production aspects judged (wide back to hang meat and makes eggs from within), you can know and judge the temperament of them...can you live with a bird like this and make more...
Comb is OK, but where are the wattles?
Yup, cushion comb, hate the wrinkle in the wattles and earlobes...
Compensation for less head gear, BIG lobes??
What's with the wow in the front of the comb...big lobes on the go too.
No wattles virtually but less than desirable overall look
Buff hen has virtually NO wattles
Some of the Quebecers ADORE the no wattle look...but the SOP's say wattles!![]()
So part of the using only older stocks to breed from, the growth of the head gear may be judged properly. You are not guessing at the quality of the cushion comb and wattles...YOU KNOW because you SEE it as an adult bird possessing it.
You even see the quality of the comb and wattles on these?![]()
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My avatar's head...
This Chant sire has perfection in pencillings for a Party bird...and throws it to his offspring -
would you faint if I told you he has a PEA COMB? LMBO
I've kept and bred from her for her huge eggs (plenty of Jumbo winter eggs with that dark brown shell), her longevity, her shape...her personality...I could gush on for hours and oh yeh, she does happen to have a cushion comb and small round wattles...woop whoop who cares, eh?![]()
DAY OLD CHOOKS....
Look for BRISTLES on the Cushion Comb at day old age
L00K for the smooth surface, the sorta bump of fleshed comb...
Note the blocky shape on this little cushion comb
Look for the bristles, the smooth surface of the flesh, look for the transverse groove that is genetically impossible to avoid...
There are NO serrations, there are NO points, there are often bristles and there can be a transverse LINE on the comb...get your toolbox of must have's on the spotting of a day old cushion comb and KNOW it from day one!![]()
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Article 1 - Combs & Wattles in the Chantecler Chicken
http://www.wolven.ca/higgins/ratranch/articles.htm:
I always stress...whilst the possession of the WRONG comb type in a chicken means you cannot show (disqualification) that bird, what one exhibits and what one BREEDS from are often completely different birds (of a feather). Breeding stock does not always end up as showing stock and vice versa. Double mating shouts that out in that half of each of the two pens are completely and utterly UNshowable. Keep this well in mind.
Once past possessing the correct comb type for the breed, combs may be thought to be the crowing glory AND some say if the comb and the feet are correct, the inbetweens are usually good too...have to stop and figure...there are a ton of WAY more important factors in poultry than top of head and bottom of feets. Oh please...longevity, vigour, production, fertility, temperament...all come WAY before something as superficial as outwards looks. Keep your priorities straight. What the dang chicken looks like is way less important if you HATE their attitude towards you or the other birds. A good looker that is a pain in the wazoo, usually ends up tasting really good on a platter.
In the APA general scale of points for judging fowl...the COMB shape is worth five points outta 100...so five percent value on the total bird. The wattle's shape 2 and the earlobes are worth 4 points (2 for shape and 2 for colour). Are you getting what I mean by importance regarding combs?
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Bear this heavy responsibility well as the breeder and keeper of the flocks. Combs have a teeny tiny value...value but not worth tossing the whole baby out with the bath water.![]()
Article 1 - Combs & Wattles in the Chantecler Chicken
http://www.wolven.ca/higgins/ratranch/articles.htm:
In a completely perfect world, one would like to produce and own only cushion combed Chanteclers with perfectly suited Chantie wattles. It is indeed true that by selecting only for cushion combs and nice, correct wattles in your breeding birds, you will up the chances of having only cushion combed and correctly wattled offspring. If you breed and cull long enough, you should be able to weed out the non-pure cushion comb genetics, producing only cushion combs from birds pure for both pea and rose combs (P/P, R/R). By using only perfectly wattled Chanteclers, you also up the anti on producing only the same. “Like begets like” in most cases, given recessive genetics can and do lie hidden for generations sometimes!
The basic problem with the theory that you keep and use only Chantecler head gear perfection for breeding is this: What are you culling along with the less than perfectly expressed cushion combs and wattles? The Chantecler is not solely defined only by its cushion comb and small wattles! PLUS one must factor in that it is not an overly common breed. We do not have the luxury of thousands of specimens to ensure we have a robust, healthy, and diversified population. If one does not cautiously judge all aspects of your Chantecler breeding potentials, you may well be passing over a star contributor to your breeding program, simply because their head gear is not correct to the breed standards. Far too much emphasis, in my opinion, is being paid to a very simply corrected issue. The pure fact that one can assess day old hatchlings for possession of cushion combs with a few exceptions, means when you have finally produced a near perfect strain of Chanteclers and if it does not possess a cushion, cautiously cull it from the breeding program (but always judge the whole bird, not just one single feature).
Some Breeding tips on improving combs or wattles in Chanteclers:
1) Cross larger appendage wattles with smaller hoping to produce medium small or if luck smiles on you, just small wattles will be produced.
2) While you may certainly cross pure rose to pure pea combs and get cushion combs (all will be carriers of r”+” and p”+” which means the F2 generation could produce single combs; r”+”/r”+” and p”+”/p”+”), if you cross pure rose or pure pea combs with cushion combs, it will speed up creating pure cushion combed progeny.
3) Choose perfect combs and wattles and place these individuals in your breeding pens to improve overall future strain’s combs and wattles.
Overall breeding considerations in poultry programs: vigour, amiable flock/human temperament, personality/intelligence, severe weather endurance, productivity, longevity, disease resistance, colour requirements (pattern and colour in feathers, face, and shanks), feathers (shape, texture and growth rate), conformation (feet, beak, wings, overall shape, etc.), size (balance and proportion), foraging ability, prepotency and purity for desirable virtues (throws good offspring), exhibition (qualities like the ability to be trained to show off, stand correctly for examination by a judge, temperament to be tolerant during physical exam, ability to be conditioned, timing—molting period too long or feather shape/colour/pattern correct, etc.), reproduction (as in physical egg quality, egg colour, fertility-male or female, mothering/hatching ability, etc.), etc., etc.
The list of our own personal priorities for the Chantecler goes on. Where on this list is the cushion comb and correct wattles? Somewhere around exhibition qualities and egg production and wintering ability. Not a top priority for us BUT do note, we do not have an excessive number of birds lacking cushion combs!
So that be that...think you can identify a cushion comb on day one now...hope so. But be ever so careful if that is the only criterion you have in the Chant breed...poor situation if you cul for combs and not know what you might be missing out on fur your breeding pens, eh.
Doggone & Chicken UP!
Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada