Jungle Fowl

[RobG7aChattTN]

Lots of fantastic information here about breeds containing Green Junglefowl genetics:
http://plumage.forum-actif.net/t2900-pre-columbian-araucana-new-finding

 

[BekisarBengal]

I'm a pretty avid reader, so I've already read those posts, but thank you for directing me to them because I should re-read them. As my understanding improves, my viewpoints on strategies change.

On the Ayam Cemanis, I'll do you one better. I have 13 AC eggs in my incubator from my pair right now. My plan is to line breed this pair out to wash out some of the faults. My hen is gorgeous, but my cock could be better. Then I'm going to outbreed to a higher quality line that I can get my hands on. In this process, I would be willing to give you started birds.as we get further along. I just want your reject Bekisars and Bekikoks.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

I'm a pretty avid reader, so I've already read those posts, but thank you for directing me to them because I should re-read them.  As my understanding improves, my viewpoints on strategies change.

On the Ayam Cemanis, I'll do you one better.  I have 13 AC eggs in my incubator from my pair right now.  My plan is to line breed this pair out to wash out some of the faults.  My hen is gorgeous, but my cock could be better.  Then I'm going to outbreed to a higher quality line that I can get my hands on.  In this process, I would be willing to give you started birds.as we get further along.  I just want your reject Bekisars and Bekikoks.

That should work great because I really want the Ayam Cemani that revert and have the wild-type chick pattern which would be culls for you anyway. I was encouraged to see that 1/3 of Bekisars are fertile. I'll probably try to have a good number to try but really won't need to breed any of them too many times and will need homes for them. Plus, as soon as I get some Bekikos I won't really have a use for the Bekisars and once I've moved beyond the Bekikos I really won't need them either.

 

[BekisarBengal]

Looks like we can make this work. I could supply other birds for you as well and we can both benefit. It's the Bekikoks that have the best voices.

Based on the readings you've cited. I'd say there probably isn't anything I know that you don't. Before starting to read online about this subject a few years ago, I got all my chicken information from several mainstream books and poultry catalogues. I'm no expert and I hope the information we're seeing is reliable. It appears to be.

I say that mainly because I don't want to advise you on things you've probably already thought of; but have you considered the value of the Ceylon JF in perhaps fixing or enhancing comb color? I know the tendency has been reduced size, peacombs, rumplessness and crests but it may be possible. The Green and the Ceylon are relatively close genetically.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

Looks like we can make this work.  I could supply other birds for you as well and we can both benefit.  It's the Bekikoks that have the best voices. 

Based on the readings you've cited.  I'd say there probably isn't anything I know that you don't.   Before starting to read online about this subject a few years ago, I got all my chicken information from several mainstream books and poultry catalogues.  I'm no expert and I hope the information we're seeing is reliable.  It appears to be.

I say that mainly because I don't want to advise you on things you've probably already thought of; but have you considered the value of the Ceylon JF in perhaps fixing or enhancing comb color?  I know the tendency has been reduced size, peacombs, rumplessness and crests but it may be possible.  The Green and the Ceylon are relatively close genetically.

I don't know if adding a separate species would make it easier or more difficult. I might consider it if nothing else works but I think I'll start by just using GJF and chicken breeds with GJF genes. Has anyone ever successfully crossed Ceylon with Green? I may as well start with at least one bird (the domestic chicken) that is calm, easy to feed/house and lays a ton of eggs.

 

[NextAdam68]

I understand your point. My understanding is that Ceylon and GJF have been crossed, but I understand your desire to work with easier birds. What I was thinking about specifically is that when the Basket Bantam, generated through a Ceylon sire and a Bankiva hen, is mated to a Bekisar, you get fertile daughters. My notion, or the question I ask myself in regard to your project, is: Can these daughters be bred back to a GJF to make an attempt to fix those comb characteristics?

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

I understand your point.  My understanding is that Ceylon and GJF have been crossed, but I understand your desire to work with easier birds.  What I was thinking about specifically is that when the Basket Bantam, generated through a Ceylon sire and a Bankiva hen, is mated to a Bekisar, you get fertile daughters.  My notion, or the question I ask myself in regard to your project, is:  Can these daughters be bred back to a GJF to make an attempt to fix those comb characteristics?

Well,,,that does change things. I might have to go that route. It's interesting that I was reading up on Araucanas and it was talking about changing their diet in order to increase the number of chicks that hatch. It seems to be the same recipe used by people breeding Green Junglefowl. It seems that on the Araucana they are talking about increased nutrition and micronutrients but on the Green Junglefowl thread it is to reduce phytoestrogens. Either way it is sweet potatoes, quinoa, fish, crab meal, and Ultra Kibble. Apparently those beards and ear tufts on Auracanas correlate to a feathered beard and ear flaps on Green Junglefowl.

 

[NextAdam68]

Yeah. I think it's nearly a sure bet that the Araucana has both Green and Ceylon genes. It may serve both our purposes well. One of the angles I'm pursuing is to try to get my hands on some Quail Bearded D'anvers bantams, which are apparently the closest thing we have readily available to the Basket Fowl. It's difficult to know how much of those genes have been washed out, but it might be worth a try in your Bekisar mating attempts to use the D'anvers to see if you get fertile daughters. I think I'm going to be able to get my hands on some eggs.

If I can get some, I also may attempt to mate them with Araucanas and/or Tomarus to see if I can revive some of those genes through recombination.

Before you hypothetically pursue a Ceylon at some future date, make sure I'm right about the fertile daughters. I'm pretty sure I've seen that information more than once, but I can't remember where. It needs to be verified. In the mean time we have birds we can try.

 

[NextAdam68]

I guess you see I'm going to let BekisarBengal die. I decided I didn't want to draw any more fire from the Jungle Fowl purists than I have to. I don't want to be judged just for my name.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

Yeah.  I think it's nearly a sure bet that the Araucana has both Green and Ceylon genes.  It may serve both our purposes well. One of the angles I'm pursuing is to try to get my hands on some Quail Bearded D'anvers bantams, which are apparently the closest thing we have readily available to the Basket Fowl.  It's difficult to know how much of those genes have been washed out, but it might be worth a try in your Bekisar mating attempts to use the D'anvers to see if you get fertile daughters.  I think I'm going to be able to get my hands on some eggs.

If I can get some, I also may attempt to mate them with Araucanas and/or Tomarus to see if I can revive some of those genes through recombination.

Before you hypothetically pursue a Ceylon at some future date, make sure I'm right about the fertile daughters.  I'm pretty sure I've seen that information more than once, but I can't remember where.  It needs to be verified.  In the mean time we have birds we can try.

It was mentioned on the Quechua thread. I don't know if it is necessary to recreate the basket fowl. I'm also thinking of reviving some of those genetics through recombination of existing breeds that have Green Junglefowl in their DNA.
These photos were on that thread: