Just curious who else is living super frugal

[Beekissed]

You might also factor in that these activities of milking, making cheese and butter, etc. are very time consuming and labor intensive and take a daily commitment and routine that few possess in their lives in today's world. It sounds lovely when you say it and dream it, but the reality of it is an altogether different matter.

 

[newfoundland]

Quite agree Beekissed.

 

[ScottnLydia]

Hey Scot!
I was raised in San Jose which is close to sea level. Living at 2500 feet, I find myself getting tired quicker. It is because of that or because of my age – I’m not sure. If I had to work this hard at your elevation, I would probably have to be hauled around on a dolly! None the less, I do love the mountains!
My neighbor’s sheep seem quite tame. When I arrive to feed them, they come running to the fence. Their pasture is rather small and I worry that they are not getting enough to eat, but I have never seen them looking poor. I have a tendency to overfeed – so I am told. Do you have many problems with predators? We have an occasional mountain lion, Bob Cats, but mostly coyotes. Once, I was working in the yard, and I heard one of the chickens squawking. Looking up, not more than 10 yards away was a coyote ducking and dodging around my car trying to catch one of my hens - the nerve! “Hay! What do you think you’r doing?” Startled, the coyote looked up at me … “Huu? Oh oh …” Off he dashed over the hill. At night, they often come around yipping and singing their songs, but to no avail as the chicken coop is now similar to Fort Knox. We have two dogs, but they sleep inside and they have this attitude that, during the night, what happens outside, stays outside. Believe it or not, one of them is a Pit Bull. During the daytime, I find that playing talk shows on the radio keeps the bad guys away.

Yeah, our primary predator here are coyotes. There is an arroyo about 400 yards behind our place that they use as a 'superhighway'. There are foxes too, bobcats are kinda rare. The lions here hang mostly where there are water and deer, and there are neither near us, ergo, I don't think we have any lions.

As I said, the coyotes are THICK and BRAZEN! I hear them yodelling and yipping most every night in the street in front of the house or in the neighbors yard. As I have stated many times in other forums, THE BEST DEFENSE against canids (coyotes, foxes, domestic dogs) in my opinion is a guard llama. They adopt their charges, whether they are sheep, goats, chickens, whatever, and guard them like it was their own babies! We have a llama, Moofasa, that lives with the sheep. He is so gentle that the ewes trust him with newborn lambs. The lambs play with him as they grow, climb on him like a jungle jim. He's even 'best-buds' with the ram ( they touch heads to greet each other).

In spite of how close the coyotes and foxes are, We have never lost a lamb. In fact we have never lost a chicken, chick, turkey, or turkey poult!!! When it snows or rains, I check for tracks, and there are NO canid track within a zone of 75 to 100 feet of our fenceline! EVER! One time I saw him in action when some neighborhood Labradors got loose and ran over to check out and raise a fuss. Moofy herded the sheep into a ball in the center of the pasture and charged those dogs full tilt! 300 pounds of black wool flying straight at you, I'd run too!

If they hadn't, he would have stomped the snot out of them.

Our neighbor lost a shetland pony foal to those coyotes 2 years ago so I know Moofy is earning his keep! Best of all, he doesn't eat much, and llamas can be found on craigslist for very little money to free sometimes. Of course. the free ones may not be so friendly, but you never know.

They aren't much good against lions or bears, I understand. For some reason that I don't understand, even though there are many hawks over us, we have never lost any poultry, not even chicks, which should have been easy pickin's. I don't know if that can be attributed to the llama or not.

~S

 

[countrybuffs]

We just harvested part of our first crop of potatos. This was an experiment because we grew them in containers. We used 10 gallon size planter pots and from our 8 pots of Yukon Golds we got 45 lbs.! Very excited!

 

[DennisK]

Yeah, our primary predator here are coyotes. There is an arroyo about 400 yards behind our place that they use as a 'superhighway'. There are foxes too, bobcats are kinda rare. The lions here hang mostly where there are water and deer, and there are neither near us, ergo, I don't think we have any lions.

As I said, the coyotes are THICK and BRAZEN! I hear them yodelling and yipping most every night in the street in front of the house or in the neighbors yard. As I have stated many times in other forums, THE BEST DEFENSE against canids (coyotes, foxes, domestic dogs) in my opinion is a guard llama. They adopt their charges, whether they are sheep, goats, chickens, whatever, and guard them like it was their own babies! We have a llama, Moofasa, that lives with the sheep. He is so gentle that the ewes trust him with newborn lambs. The lambs play with him as they grow, climb on him like a jungle jim. He's even 'best-buds' with the ram ( they touch heads to greet each other).

In spite of how close the coyotes and foxes are, We have never lost a lamb. In fact we have never lost a chicken, chick, turkey, or turkey poult!!! When it snows or rains, I check for tracks, and there are NO canid track within a zone of 75 to 100 feet of our fenceline! EVER! One time I saw him in action when some neighborhood Labradors got loose and ran over to check out and raise a fuss. Moofy herded the sheep into a ball in the center of the pasture and charged those dogs full tilt! 300 pounds of black wool flying straight at you, I'd run too!

If they hadn't, he would have stomped the snot out of them.

Our neighbor lost a shetland pony foal to those coyotes 2 years ago so I know Moofy is earning his keep! Best of all, he doesn't eat much, and llamas can be found on craigslist for very little money to free sometimes. Of course. the free ones may not be so friendly, but you never know.

They aren't much good against lions or bears, I understand. For some reason that I don't understand, even though there are many hawks over us, we have never lost any poultry, not even chicks, which should have been easy pickin's. I don't know if that can be attributed to the llama or not.

~S

Wow, I’m impressed! Did this llama grow up with sheep? We have over a hundred acres with most of the potential grazing land beyond my sight. It would be great to know they were being protected. Unfortunately, the perimeter is only fenced with barbed wire. I would like to let the sheep graze where they want, but at the end of the day, return to a safe area near our living quarters. I’m worried about the fence as I was thinking of adding more secure wire fencing, but the expense is beyond my ability right now. The truth is, I have more land than I can manage. I lost a lot of chickens to coyotes before I discovered the radio trick, and now that the chicken yard is fenced, and we shut them in during the night, we have no further losses. We also have hawks and eagles, but they don’t seem to be interested in the chickens. This is probably due to the high number of ground squirrels we have.

One of our neighbors has an automatic camera:



So I know I will have to be prepared with something once I start bringing in livestock.

 

[ScottnLydia]

Hey Dennis, no, to be a good guard llama they have to grow up with other llamas. That way they can see and learn from their 'elders' what it takes. We got ours when he was 10 1/2 months old, a little on the young side, but he cought on quickly. Of course, the first day he protected 'his' pasture from the sheep! He ran them all over creation until he finally realized they weren't going anywhere.

Gelded males and females work best. Their wool (called fiber) needs shearing in the spring to keep them cool, but it sells for a pretty penny offsetting the hassle, unlike sheeps wool. Storey has a great book on sheep and a beginner level book on llamas that you may be able to get from your library.

Like I said, I don't know that they would be much help against a lion, I don't know of anything that would. Perhaps a pair of llamas and bringing the sheep in to a paddock at night? Our paddock is right by the house. Hair sheep don't smell so it isn't an issue.

I think part of how they do it is those enormous eyes they have! If a predator depends on stealth, wants to be unseen until the final moment, the llama has blown that right off!!! I saw that in India, where people are afraid of tigers, they wear masks with big eyes on the BACK OF THEIR HEADS. They know that a tiger won't attack something that is looking at them! They even sell a gadget that is supposed to scare away predator by simulating something staring at them with red leds.

The only downside with llamas is that some of them can be stinkers. That being said, sweeties can be SO sweet!

~S

 

[DennisK]

Hey Dennis, no, to be a good guard llama they have to grow up with other llamas. That way they can see and learn from their 'elders' what it takes. We got ours when he was 10 1/2 months old, a little on the young side, but he cought on quickly. Of course, the first day he protected 'his' pasture from the sheep! He ran them all over creation until he finally realized they weren't going anywhere.

Gelded males and females work best. Their wool (called fiber) needs shearing in the spring to keep them cool, but it sells for a pretty penny offsetting the hassle, unlike sheeps wool. Storey has a great book on sheep and a beginner level book on llamas that you may be able to get from your library.

Like I said, I don't know that they would be much help against a lion, I don't know of anything that would. Perhaps a pair of llamas and bringing the sheep in to a paddock at night? Our paddock is right by the house. Hair sheep don't smell so it isn't an issue.

I think part of how they do it is those enormous eyes they have! If a predator depends on stealth, wants to be unseen until the final moment, the llama has blown that right off!!! I saw that in India, where people are afraid of tigers, they wear masks with big eyes on the BACK OF THEIR HEADS. They know that a tiger won't attack something that is looking at them! They even sell a gadget that is supposed to scare away predator by simulating something staring at them with red leds.

The only downside with llamas is that some of them can be stinkers. That being said, sweeties can be SO sweet!

~S

Mountain lions usually only hunt at night, and they really aren’t as formidable as popular attitudes depict. A pack of dogs will send them running, but I don’t want dogs out there barking all night – I like everything nice and quiet when I sleep. If I can bring the flock in during the evening time, they will be safe. Too bad they are not like chickens! When I whistle a certain tune, the horses come because they know that means I will give them their sweet oats. Can sheep be trained like that? When I come to feed my neighbor’s sheep, they seem to know me and they eagerly crowd the fence when I drive in. I told Jennifer about your llama and it is now a foregone conclusion that we will be looking for one! Storey’s Guide to Raising Sheep – thanks for the recommendation! I’ll look for it at the library the next time I am in town.

 

[mickey328]

Have you looked into a sheep dog? I visited an alpaca ranch a while back and they had a Great Pyrenees who lived with the alpacas to protect them from coyotes. They said he did an awesome job...didn't chase after them, but just ran 'em off, and came right back to the alpacas. I didn't ask about mountain lions, but I suspect they'd go after them as well...they're bred to protect the flock, so they'll go after anything they perceive as a threat.

 

[cassie]

Quote:
The term sheep dog can be confusing. There are sheep dogs and then there are sheep guardian dogs. I know what you meant, but to most people the term sheep dog means the herders such as Border Collies and Australian Shepherds. Livestock guardian breeds are the Pyranees (sp) , Meremma, Kuvasz, Komondor, Anatolian, to name a few. They can do a wonderful job of protecting the flock.

 

[Raiquee]

Of course this all takes labor, time, love and money. That's why we are at least 2 years out on getting a cow as I finish my degree. I must toot my own horn here and say I am very good at time management. If I wasn't I'd be dead by now. I would have the morning milking, and my son will be taught, and hubby will take the night milking when we aren't sharing with a calf. My sister will be over to help make cheese, butter, etc. It will take a daily commitment, but with the changes I want to make in our lives, I feel that this is an achievable feet. I am part of another forum just for family cows and read about mastitis/ketosis/birthing problems, everything! I would have AI done, and i draw blood for a living so feel very comfortable drawing for bio tracking. I still got two years to read up more.

The only thing I wish was someone around me was doing the same thing, so I could go milk the cow, and get used to handling large animals. That is the part that no amount of reading will help me on. I've handled horses, but not cattle.