Just curious who else is living super frugal

[ScottnLydia]

About 1/2 mile away is a goat farm that has 3 australian shepherds. The coyotes are constantly distracting them and digging under the fence in another area and stealing kids! They will use a coyote ***** in heat to lure male dogs out and kill them. They're just cunning. Oh, Aimee, the goat farm owner, is looking into llamas based on our results.

I know guardian dogs work well, bot they were too expensive for us and the llama was a gift from someone that used them. In fact, we were in bad shape when we first got here and friends donated the beginnings of all of our livestock, God bless them!

Dennis, it's easy to train sheep. They have great memories, and are VERY food motivated! Rattling a bucket of grain (or I use alfalfa pellets), will bring them in. If you do that at the same time every day, they will come running, expecting a treat, or be there waiting for you, baaing! It only takes a few days to get this pattern established. That's why I NEVER, EVER feed before 9 a.m. I may go out at 6:30 to let out the chickens, and they come over to say "howdy", but there is no hollerin' to be fed until after 9. The neighbors appreciate that.

I tell ya, to me, there's nothing ( other than family, of course) more fulfilling than being a shepherd! It humbles me, how awesome it is. You can FEEL how historical, and ancient the the relationship of man and sheep is. Maybe second to man and dog, I don't know. We eat lamb 3 or 4 times a week and never get tired of it. Hair sheep especially are so mild tasting, they are a perfect 'canvas' for so many cooking techniques. One day last week we had some boneless loin chops. They tasted just like the best New York Strip I ever had, only more tender. The next day, Lydia made an exquisite lamb pie, which was just stew with trimming meat that we were going to grind into burger, potatoes, onions, carrots, lamb broth, and a little tomato paste, baked in a pie crust. All I can do is thank my U.K. cousins for meat pies!!! Lord was that good! We do a lot of Morroccan recipes with necks and shoulders cooked until the meat falls off the bone, incredible spice combinations! Then there are curries. The shanks are so good when it's cold out, slow cooked either French style (red wine with a whole bunch of whole garlic cloves), or Italian (covered with chopped onion and crushed tomatoes).

I keep mine grass fed, but they aren't too lean, just right. The best part is that I can handle them by myself, that is when I butcher. Also, I don't need a locker or extra large freezer for 1 animal like I would a beef. Lydia found somewhere on line that grassfed Katahdin meat had the same cholesterol level as chicken!

O.K., can you tell that I love being a shepherd?

~S

 

[countrybuffs]

Of course this all takes labor, time, love and money. That's why we are at least 2 years out on getting a cow as I finish my degree. I must toot my own horn here and say I am very good at time management. If I wasn't I'd be dead by now. I would have the morning milking, and my son will be taught, and hubby will take the night milking when we aren't sharing with a calf. My sister will be over to help make cheese, butter, etc. It will take a daily commitment, but with the changes I want to make in our lives, I feel that this is an achievable feet. I am part of another forum just for family cows and read about mastitis/ketosis/birthing problems, everything! I would have AI done, and i draw blood for a living so feel very comfortable drawing for bio tracking. I still got two years to read up more.
The only thing I wish was someone around me was doing the same thing, so I could go milk the cow, and get used to handling large animals. That is the part that no amount of reading will help me on. I've handled horses, but not cattle.

Don't necessarily rule out a calf. It makes life a lot easier! When we had a milk cow we just had so much milk, even for butter, that we kept a calf, milked the cow in the morning, then put the calf with her all day, separate them at night and that way you only have to milk once a day. If you have a heavy milking cow that is pretty mellow you can get a beef x calf for her to raise and you have nice meat for yourself or to sell.

 

[zzGypsy]

Mountain lions usually only hunt at night, and they really aren’t as formidable as popular attitudes depict. A pack of dogs will send them running, but I don’t want dogs out there barking all night – I like everything nice and quiet when I sleep. If I can bring the flock in during the evening time, they will be safe. Too bad they are not like chickens! When I whistle a certain tune, the horses come because they know that means I will give them their sweet oats. Can sheep be trained like that? When I come to feed my neighbor’s sheep, they seem to know me and they eagerly crowd the fence when I drive in.

I've had sheep for a long time, they will indeed learn to come to your call - if there's food involved they can be trained to do all sorts of things
they will learn the sound of your car, the feed room door, your back screen door, your alarm clock... if it's loud enough
ours come to "lit-tle SHEE-eep". and they'll follow a bucket absolutely anywhere.

Have you looked into a sheep dog? I visited an alpaca ranch a while back and they had a Great Pyrenees who lived with the alpacas to protect them from coyotes. They said he did an awesome job...didn't chase after them, but just ran 'em off, and came right back to the alpacas. I didn't ask about mountain lions, but I suspect they'd go after them as well...they're bred to protect the flock, so they'll go after anything they perceive as a threat.

we have great pyraneese, pyr/anatolian shepard and pyr/anatolian/kangal crosses. we recently moved from an area where we were surrounded by 3 large coyote packs and had coyote calf kills in both our neighbor's yards... we lost 0 sheep, lambs, goats, kids, turkeys, ducks... I would not have lifestock again without these dogs.
there are things to know - most of them will climb fences, but a hotwire readily stops that. some breeds hang tight with their animals, others are perimeter-circuit guards. some breeds are less barky, and some are more - in fact the bark is intended to warn off predators, or call the owner with his(her) shotgun, so the bark is not a bad thing. individuals may or may not bond with your type of animals, depending on what they were raised with. they're better if they were raised with the livestock they're intended to guard. they're better still if they were raised with mature LGDs guarding that same kind of livestock. they will eat pelleted goat/sheep feed and the goats and sheep will want to eat their kibble... they may or may not allow it and feeding is a problem you'll have to solve. young dogs can be too rough with young livestock and will need to be supervised and occasionally corrected until they figure it out, especially if there's no older dog to teach them. once they get the message about young stock they are terrific with the tiny lambs and kids, helping to dry them when they're born, letting the lambs and kids snuggle for warmth when they nap. and, occasionally, you get one that loves people much more than animals (which may be the owner's fault), and they wash out of the livestock guard program and want to be pets. these dogs make sweet pets, are often fabulous with kids (and may guard and even herd them) and will keep your feet toasty warm in the winter.
the LGDs are very, very smart, but they are smart differently than any other dog I've worked with so it takes a change of mind set to work with them effectively. they can and will stop mountain lions, kill coyote and bobcat, warn off hawks, and, depending on the dog, defend against poachers.

 

[Frogdogtimestwo]

Maybe I missed someone mentioning a donkey living with the sheep. We lost a lamb from a pack of coyotes so we got a free donkey and boy was he the BEST at keeping them away, if they got close he would charge and once he had established his territory they never came near the fence line again. We loved that guy, we have since moved and he went to another home to protect livestock but out of all our livestock we sold, we miss him the most. Have you looked into St. Croix hairsheep, they have fantastic meat, super hardy and you don't have to sheer them, they are a heritage breed which is important to me as well

Oh and yes, sheep can be trained to come, ours would start a dust storm when they heard the grain bucket.

 

[mickey328]

You're absolutely right! I'd forgotten how good donkeys are about that. They're usually not hard to find and are wonderful critters

 

[zzGypsy]

I know guardian dogs work well, bot they were too expensive for us <snip>

That's why I NEVER, EVER feed before 9 a.m. I may go out at 6:30 to let out the chickens, and they come over to say "howdy", but there is no hollerin' to be fed until after 9. The neighbors appreciate that.

Ha! yep. we do not feed on a time schedule for that very reason... we vary the feed time from day to day on purpose so our sheep have learned to listen for the gate squeek. because sheep are remarkabley good at telling time if you feed on a clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottnLydia
O.K., can you tell that I love being a shepherd?

me too... for all the reaons you cite, plus the lamb races are entirely too entertaining.

Don't necessarily rule out a calf. It makes life a lot easier! When we had a milk cow we just had so much milk, even for butter, that we kept a calf, milked the cow in the morning, then put the calf with her all day, separate them at night and that way you only have to milk once a day. If you have a heavy milking cow that is pretty mellow you can get a beef x calf for her to raise and you have nice meat for yourself or to sell.

we do this with our high-production dairy goats so we can milk only once a day without risking mastitis. kids go in with them during the day, and separated at night.

 

[ScottnLydia]

Maybe I missed someone mentioning a donkey living with the sheep. We lost a lamb from a pack of coyotes so we got a free donkey and boy was he the BEST at keeping them away, if they got close he would charge and once he had established his territory they never came near the fence line again. We loved that guy, we have since moved and he went to another home to protect livestock but out of all our livestock we sold, we miss him the most. Have you looked into St. Croix hairsheep, they have fantastic meat, super hardy and you don't have to sheer them, they are a heritage breed which is important to me as well

Oh and yes, sheep can be trained to come, ours would start a dust storm when they heard the grain bucket.

YES!!! I FORGOT TO MENTION THEM. The friends that donated our starter sheep live in the mountains near here and have a donkey (Angel) and a horse out with the sheep as they graze during the day. They all come in before dark for their alfalfa and to be locked up. And they have a lion up there (it killed one of their dogs), perhaps a donkey would be the answer.

There are so many good guard animals, each with ther special traits! Perhaps even a combination? Why not?

Oh, Frogdogtimestwo, St Croix are a fantastic breed. I have been trying to locate someone that breeds them or a cross of them with Dorper for our next ram. The Dorper/St Croix crosses seem to be more common here in CO than the pure breed. Large, meaty animals for sure, for sure.

~S

 

[Frogdogtimestwo]

Best lamb I have ever eaten hands down, mild flavor and low fat.
http://www.stcroixsheep.org/breed.html

I made many phone calls to find this breed and ended up finding a small breeder a few miles down the road. They really are a wonderful breed.

 

[jbirds2012]

Of course this all takes labor, time, love and money. That's why we are at least 2 years out on getting a cow as I finish my degree. I must toot my own horn here and say I am very good at time management. If I wasn't I'd be dead by now. I would have the morning milking, and my son will be taught, and hubby will take the night milking when we aren't sharing with a calf. My sister will be over to help make cheese, butter, etc. It will take a daily commitment, but with the changes I want to make in our lives, I feel that this is an achievable feet. I am part of another forum just for family cows and read about mastitis/ketosis/birthing problems, everything! I would have AI done, and i draw blood for a living so feel very comfortable drawing for bio tracking. I still got two years to read up more.
The only thing I wish was someone around me was doing the same thing, so I could go milk the cow, and get used to handling large animals. That is the part that no amount of reading will help me on. I've handled horses, but not cattle.

yea, were in the same boat. we want to get a jersey cow or two but first we want to build a barn and get set up. we realize it's a commitment that will change a few habbits of ours. there is a dairy farm down the raod a bit that we plan to visit and buy a quart of raw milk so we can try it and see how it taste. my uncle had cows and the first lesson we learned is " watch your feet " so thats the lesson for the day. keep a300lb animal from standing on your foot.

 

[zzGypsy]

yea, were in the same boat. we want to get a jersey cow or two but first we want to build a barn and get set up. we realize it's a commitment that will change a few habbits of ours. there is a dairy farm down the raod a bit that we plan to visit and buy a quart of raw milk so we can try it and see how it taste. my uncle had cows and the first lesson we learned is " watch your feet " so thats the lesson for the day. keep a300lb animal from standing on your foot.

300 lbs would be a little bitty cow... my wool/meat breed ram sheep weighs in at 325...

Jersey is a nice smaller cow though... but she'll still weigh in near 1000 lbs.
still, y'all might consider dairy goats if you don't need 3+gallons of milk a day. the laManchas are maybe 125 average for does, they'll produce 1/2-2 gallons a day, depending on the goat. easy to milk, don't require as much feed as a cow, easier to handle, and the milk's excellent. some breeds have stronger flavored milk, but I've found the lamancha's milk to be very very mild, not at all goaty.