Just found a dead chick.

[Rosie42892]

Corid(amprol) kills 9 strains of cocci. The cocci they might have is not resistant to amprol because of medicated feed. The amount of amprol in medicated feed is very small,only enough for light exposure to cocci. Once there is an overload,medicated feed DOES NOTHING. Yes chicks can get cocci,even if they have not been outside. Yes, i will throw random drugs at my chicks to prevent them dying from something as treatable as Coccidiosis. To not treat is irresponsible. In my opinion,you do not understand coccidiosis,some of your comments are questionable. Go ahead and not treat your chicks, personally i could care a less. I am done with this conversation,you clearly don't know what you are talking about!

Alright, lets not get out of hand. We are all here to help each other by giving our experience and opinions. Being rude is not helping anyone. We all treat situations differently, but that doesn't make anyone wrong. Some people believe over treatment as a precaution helps, where others believe it causes harm in the future. The harsh drugs do effect the immune system if consistently overused. No one said not to treat for cocci if the birds are infected. Unfortunately, a bird who was completely normal then was dead out of no where does not point to cocci. Cocci is known to begin with lethargy, loss of appetite, and diarrhea. If the poster saw none of these signs, and the rest of the chicks are totally normal, cocci does not seem like it would be the cause of death in the silkie, in my opinion. If any of the other birds showed these warning signs, or the silkie had before it died, many of us would recommend treating for cocci with Corid.

In this situation, it seems as though bickering has taken over, and that the original poster has been scared away. The purpose of this forums is to help with our opinions and experiences, not to verbally attack one another. Please try to be respectful of others opinions, even if they do not match yours. I assure you that I, and many others, will do the same.

 

[Ms Steak]

Alright, lets not get out of hand. We are all here to help each other by giving our experience and opinions. Being rude is not helping anyone. We all treat situations differently, but that doesn't make anyone wrong. Some people believe over treatment as a precaution helps, where others believe it causes harm in the future. The harsh drugs do effect the immune system if consistently overused. No one said not to treat for cocci if the birds are infected. Unfortunately, a bird who was completely normal then was dead out of no where does not point to cocci. Cocci is known to begin with lethargy, loss of appetite, and diarrhea. If the poster saw none of these signs, and the rest of the chicks are totally normal, cocci does not seem like it would be the cause of death in the silkie, in my opinion. If any of the other birds showed these warning signs, or the silkie had before it died, many of us would recommend treating for cocci with Corid.

In this situation, it seems as though bickering has taken over, and that the original poster has been scared away. The purpose of this forums is to help with our opinions and experiences, not to verbally attack one another. Please try to be respectful of others opinions, even if they do not match yours. I assure you that I, and many others, will do the same.

Hi. I wasn`t so much scared away, as felt totally out of my depth by the ensuing fall out. The chick that died never showed signs of ill health, and all the others are well. I have maybe seen 2 or 3 runny poo`s, but I don`t know if that is any cause for concern. I have ordered the only over the counter product I can find to treat cocci, I live in the UK, and will treat them when it arrives.

I did have one other loss of a chick I was feeding by syringe since hatch, but I knew that ones life would be short.

Thank you everyone for your input.

 

[ten chicks]

"Medicated chick starter is like an insurance policy, aimed at preventing a single disease called coccidiosis, caused by an intestinal parasite. This parasite is widespread and found in just about every chicken yard. It thrives in damp conditions and with brooder-raised chicks. It is the number one cause of death in chicks throughout the world."
http://www.urbanfarmonline.com/urba...hatching-medicated-chicken-starter-feeds.aspx

So yes, it does prevent chicks from getting Cocci. Since Cocci grows in damp conditions, brooder raised chicks are more likely to develop Cocci. The purpose is to prevent the disease in the chick. The medication (Corid, etc) is to TREAT the Cocci.

Medicated starter feed DOES NOT PREVENT COCCI.Quote from bag of medicated feed "Light to moderate exposure to Coccidiosis. As an aid in the prevention of deaths. Do not use amprolium-medicated feeds as a treatment for outbreaks of Coccidiosis". So if you have anything other than light exposure then what,if medicated feed prevented cocci as you claim, then it should apply to all exposure,but it does not. It is intended as a precautionary measure,an aid and nothing else.This is a fact,i have spoken to different vets and numerous other individuals involved in raising chickens. They all agree that medicated feed does not prevent cocci,all it was intended to do was keep deaths to a minimum. But if more people were not given all this misinformation,then no deaths should happen,everyone would be aware of the symptoms and treat chicks. Treating chicks for Cocci,even if the did not have it,would not hurt them,but not treating them will result in deaths. This misinformation is very dangerous,people assume that because they have their chicks on medicated feed,they are safe from this parasitic infection. As far as i am concerned,medicated feed is useless, and falsely lures people into believing that their chicks are safe. Please get your facts straight before you tell other people that it prevents cocci,only then will deaths be prevented. I would also suggest going to the Emergencies/Diseases forum,then you will see just how this misinformation has resulted in so many senseless chick deaths.

 

[LTygress]

Back to the original question of the thread...

It is more likely something internally wrong from the beginning, or an injury that you did not see. I say this because you stated the chick was just fine TWO HOURS before you found it dead, which makes me lean more towards an injury. Maybe it fell over and his neck was stepped on in just the right spot to break it? Or maybe another chick pecked a random spot on it, and broke his neck. Or perhaps another chick pecked his belly and caused an internal injury.

Whatever the cause, Cocci USUALLY takes longer to kill the chick - and you'll almost definitely see signs of illness just two hours before the chick dies. He'll at least have one of the symptoms - not eating or drinking, lethargic, white fluid oozing from the mouth when you pick it up, or it is fluffed up.


Now that we have covered the REAL possible cause of death, here's a wide view on cocci and "coccidiosis" infections.

Cocci is "found in almost every chicken coop". Just like salmonella is found in almost every chicken, the cold virus is found in almost every human, and worms are found in every dog pen. Whether or not your chicken gets the cocci into their system isn't really a question. They WILL. The question is whether or not your chicken is immune to it.

Cocci is a parasitic protozoan, not a virus or bacteria. And just like a normal adult human might be immune to the cold virus, a normal adult chicken might be immune to the cocci protozoa. The key is BUILDING that immunity. This is what "medicated feed" is all about. It keeps the number of Cocci protozoa in their body LOW ENOUGH to prevent excessive damage before the chicken's immune system learns how to fight it.

Think of it as "treating flu symptoms". We have no CURE for the flu. We have vaccines to teach our bodies how to deal with it, but no actual cure. And we only get SICK with the flu when a new strain comes along that our body is not familiar with, and our immune system does not know how to fight against. The flu virus will always be in our bodies. We only get ill when there are too many for our immune system to fight. And that only happens when our immune system does not know HOW to fight it. Once the immune system "learns" how to fight it, then our bodies have to take the time to produce the antibodies and white blood cells to fight against it. During this time, we are "ill" and experience the symptoms. And the elderly, young children, and those with weak immune systems are most susceptible of dying from it as the flu virus replicates faster than their bodies can learn. But all of the medications out there do nothing more than treat SYMPTOMS, as it is up to our body to actually kill the virus.

But even after the symptoms are gone, the flu virus stays in our body. Our immune systems are constantly fighting them.

A cocci infection is simply a matter of too many protozoa being in the chicken's body and doing too much damage, faster than their immune system can keep up - because the immune system doesn't know how to fight it yet. And sure enough, young chicks are most susceptible because they don't have immunity against ANY strain of cocci (so they may actually become infected with more than one strain at a time) and their bodies are already busy learning to fight every other germ it comes into contact with, plus the lack of development in the immune system slows down it's response to the protozoan attack. The combination on a young chick can be deadly.

This is also why SOME chicks survive and others do not. Some chicks manage to squeak by and their immune system picks up on it immediately and starts to combat the germ right away. Others may not be so quick and they may come down with symptoms. The cocci protozoa attacks the digestive system, basically eating it away bit by bit. From a bleeding esophagus, to bleeding stomach, to a bleeding intestinal tract - it'll cause it all. The clear liquid that often comes out of the chick's mouth when you pick it up, is stomach fluid. The bloody poop is simply from this internal bleeding.

Medicated feed and amprolium will both kill or slow down some strains of the cocci protozoa. But they often do not work fast enough to kill every protozoa in the chicken's body. Amprolium is stronger than medicated feed, and will help treat cocci "infections" in it's more advanced stages because of that. But regardless of which medication you use or have used, THE CHICK'S IMMUNE SYSTEM HAS TO TAKE OVER AND ACTUALLY LEARN TO FIGHT THE PROTOZOA. That is the ONLY way you can actually STOP the infection. If the medicated feed gives it the "edge" it needs to do this, then yes it will actually stop or prevent an infection of cocci in young chicks. But if it's just not strong enough, and/or the chick's immune system is weak enough, the cocci infection will continue to take hold anyway. At that point you can try amprolium to give it a stronger "edge" to fight the germ. But here again, if a chick has a birth defect of a very weak or "deformed" immune system, even Amprolium will not help. ANY MEDICATION you use, regardless of strength, is ONLY an agent to HELP the chick until his immune system can take over. PERIOD.

The problem with both of these "treatments" is that once the chick pecks anything on the ground where he originally got the germ... he has the protozoa back in his system all over again. HOPEFULLY by then, he has gained an immunity to it. If not, the chicken can still get a cocci infection, even if he has had it before. Furthermore, every time a chicken poops, and he has the protozoa in his body, he can and often will spread it to the others in the flock, including back to himself.

So really, I can not stress enough that the chicken's immune system is the ONLY actual "cure" against the cocci protozoa. Medications of ANY sort merely help keep it at bay while his body learns to fight it. This is why medicated feed "does not prevent" an infection. Because if you really think about it, every chicken out there really already has this infection. And they probably always will.

(By the way, infections that "wipe out a flock" come from new strains that the flock has never been in contact with, and is not immune to - similar to new strains of the flu virus, such as the old H1N1 Swine Flu that caused so much havoc in the world recently.)

 

[silkiechicken]

Back to the original question of the thread...

It is more likely something internally wrong from the beginning, or an injury that you did not see. I say this because you stated the chick was just fine TWO HOURS before you found it dead, which makes me lean more towards an injury. Maybe it fell over and his neck was stepped on in just the right spot to break it? Or maybe another chick pecked a random spot on it, and broke his neck. Or perhaps another chick pecked his belly and caused an internal injury.

Whatever the cause, Cocci USUALLY takes longer to kill the chick - and you'll almost definitely see signs of illness just two hours before the chick dies. He'll at least have one of the symptoms - not eating or drinking, lethargic, white fluid oozing from the mouth when you pick it up, or it is fluffed up.


Now that we have covered the REAL possible cause of death, here's a wide view on cocci and "coccidiosis" infections.

Cocci is "found in almost every chicken coop". Just like salmonella is found in almost every chicken, the cold virus is found in almost every human, and worms are found in every dog pen. Whether or not your chicken gets the cocci into their system isn't really a question. They WILL. The question is whether or not your chicken is immune to it.

Cocci is a parasitic protozoan, not a virus or bacteria. And just like a normal adult human might be immune to the cold virus, a normal adult chicken might be immune to the cocci protozoa. The key is BUILDING that immunity. This is what "medicated feed" is all about. It keeps the number of Cocci protozoa in their body LOW ENOUGH to prevent excessive damage before the chicken's immune system learns how to fight it.

Think of it as "treating flu symptoms". We have no CURE for the flu. We have vaccines to teach our bodies how to deal with it, but no actual cure. And we only get SICK with the flu when a new strain comes along that our body is not familiar with, and our immune system does not know how to fight against. The flu virus will always be in our bodies. We only get ill when there are too many for our immune system to fight. And that only happens when our immune system does not know HOW to fight it. Once the immune system "learns" how to fight it, then our bodies have to take the time to produce the antibodies and white blood cells to fight against it. During this time, we are "ill" and experience the symptoms. And the elderly, young children, and those with weak immune systems are most susceptible of dying from it as the flu virus replicates faster than their bodies can learn. But all of the medications out there do nothing more than treat SYMPTOMS, as it is up to our body to actually kill the virus.

But even after the symptoms are gone, the flu virus stays in our body. Our immune systems are constantly fighting them.

A cocci infection is simply a matter of too many protozoa being in the chicken's body and doing too much damage, faster than their immune system can keep up - because the immune system doesn't know how to fight it yet. And sure enough, young chicks are most susceptible because they don't have immunity against ANY strain of cocci (so they may actually become infected with more than one strain at a time) and their bodies are already busy learning to fight every other germ it comes into contact with, plus the lack of development in the immune system slows down it's response to the protozoan attack. The combination on a young chick can be deadly.

This is also why SOME chicks survive and others do not. Some chicks manage to squeak by and their immune system picks up on it immediately and starts to combat the germ right away. Others may not be so quick and they may come down with symptoms. The cocci protozoa attacks the digestive system, basically eating it away bit by bit. From a bleeding esophagus, to bleeding stomach, to a bleeding intestinal tract - it'll cause it all. The clear liquid that often comes out of the chick's mouth when you pick it up, is stomach fluid. The bloody poop is simply from this internal bleeding.

Medicated feed and amprolium will both kill or slow down some strains of the cocci protozoa. But they often do not work fast enough to kill every protozoa in the chicken's body. Amprolium is stronger than medicated feed, and will help treat cocci "infections" in it's more advanced stages because of that. But regardless of which medication you use or have used, THE CHICK'S IMMUNE SYSTEM HAS TO TAKE OVER AND ACTUALLY LEARN TO FIGHT THE PROTOZOA. That is the ONLY way you can actually STOP the infection. If the medicated feed gives it the "edge" it needs to do this, then yes it will actually stop or prevent an infection of cocci in young chicks. But if it's just not strong enough, and/or the chick's immune system is weak enough, the cocci infection will continue to take hold anyway. At that point you can try amprolium to give it a stronger "edge" to fight the germ. But here again, if a chick has a birth defect of a very weak or "deformed" immune system, even Amprolium will not help. ANY MEDICATION you use, regardless of strength, is ONLY an agent to HELP the chick until his immune system can take over. PERIOD.

The problem with both of these "treatments" is that once the chick pecks anything on the ground where he originally got the germ... he has the protozoa back in his system all over again. HOPEFULLY by then, he has gained an immunity to it. If not, the chicken can still get a cocci infection, even if he has had it before. Furthermore, every time a chicken poops, and he has the protozoa in his body, he can and often will spread it to the others in the flock, including back to himself.

So really, I can not stress enough that the chicken's immune system is the ONLY actual "cure" against the cocci protozoa. Medications of ANY sort merely help keep it at bay while his body learns to fight it. This is why medicated feed "does not prevent" an infection. Because if you really think about it, every chicken out there really already has this infection. And they probably always will.

(By the way, infections that "wipe out a flock" come from new strains that the flock has never been in contact with, and is not immune to - similar to new strains of the flu virus, such as the old H1N1 Swine Flu that caused so much havoc in the world recently.)

+1 Couldn't have said this any better!

 

[elliechooks]

For future reference I have found you can buy what they call corid here in the uk, it is called coxoid. The problem is you won't find it in the chicken section because of issues regarding eating of the birds or eggs, but you can get it licenced for use in pigeons! I got some in Countrywide Stores.

 

[Barbiejo]

Back to the original question of the thread...


It is more likely something internally wrong from the beginning, or an injury that you did not see. I say this because you stated the chick was just fine TWO HOURS before you found it dead, which makes me lean more towards an injury. Maybe it fell over and his neck was stepped on in just the right spot to break it? Or maybe another chick pecked a random spot on it, and broke his neck. Or perhaps another chick pecked his belly and caused an internal injury.


Whatever the cause, Cocci USUALLY takes longer to kill the chick - and you'll almost definitely see signs of illness just two hours before the chick dies. He'll at least have one of the symptoms - not eating or drinking, lethargic, white fluid oozing from the mouth when you pick it up, or it is fluffed up.



Now that we have covered the REAL possible cause of death, here's a wide view on cocci and "coccidiosis" infections.


Cocci is "found in almost every chicken coop". Just like salmonella is found in almost every chicken, the cold virus is found in almost every human, and worms are found in every dog pen. Whether or not your chicken gets the cocci into their system isn't really a question. They WILL. The question is whether or not your chicken is immune to it.


Cocci is a parasitic protozoan, not a virus or bacteria. And just like a normal adult human might be immune to the cold virus, a normal adult chicken might be immune to the cocci protozoa. The key is BUILDING that immunity. This is what "medicated feed" is all about. It keeps the number of Cocci protozoa in their body LOW ENOUGH to prevent excessive damage before the chicken's immune system learns how to fight it.

Think of it as "treating flu symptoms". We have no CURE for the flu. We have vaccines to teach our bodies how to deal with it, but no actual cure. And we only get SICK with the flu when a new strain comes along that our body is not familiar with, and our immune system does not know how to fight against. The flu virus will always be in our bodies. We only get ill when there are too many for our immune system to fight. And that only happens when our immune system does not know HOW to fight it. Once the immune system "learns" how to fight it, then our bodies have to take the time to produce the antibodies and white blood cells to fight against it. During this time, we are "ill" and experience the symptoms. And the elderly, young children, and those with weak immune systems are most susceptible of dying from it as the flu virus replicates faster than their bodies can learn. But all of the medications out there do nothing more than treat SYMPTOMS, as it is up to our body to actually kill the virus.


But even after the symptoms are gone, the flu virus stays in our body. Our immune systems are constantly fighting them.


A cocci infection is simply a matter of too many protozoa being in the chicken's body and doing too much damage, faster than their immune system can keep up - because the immune system doesn't know how to fight it yet. And sure enough, young chicks are most susceptible because they don't have immunity against ANY strain of cocci (so they may actually become infected with more than one strain at a time) and their bodies are already busy learning to fight every other germ it comes into contact with, plus the lack of development in the immune system slows down it's response to the protozoan attack. The combination on a young chick can be deadly.


This is also why SOME chicks survive and others do not. Some chicks manage to squeak by and their immune system picks up on it immediately and starts to combat the germ right away. Others may not be so quick and they may come down with symptoms. The cocci protozoa attacks the digestive system, basically eating it away bit by bit. From a bleeding esophagus, to bleeding stomach, to a bleeding intestinal tract - it'll cause it all. The clear liquid that often comes out of the chick's mouth when you pick it up, is stomach fluid. The bloody poop is simply from this internal bleeding.

 
Medicated feed and amprolium will both kill or slow down some strains of the cocci protozoa. But they often do not work fast enough to kill every protozoa in the chicken's body. Amprolium is stronger than medicated feed, and will help treat cocci "infections" in it's more advanced stages because of that. But regardless of which medication you use or have used, THE CHICK'S IMMUNE SYSTEM HAS TO TAKE OVER AND ACTUALLY LEARN TO FIGHT THE PROTOZOA. That is the ONLY way you can actually STOP the infection. If the medicated feed gives it the "edge" it needs to do this, then yes it will actually stop or prevent an infection of cocci in young chicks. But if it's just not strong enough, and/or the chick's immune system is weak enough, the cocci infection will continue to take hold anyway. At that point you can try amprolium to give it a stronger "edge" to fight the germ. But here again, if a chick has a birth defect of a very weak or "deformed" immune system, even Amprolium will not help. ANY MEDICATION you use, regardless of strength, is ONLY an agent to HELP the chick until his immune system can take over. PERIOD.


The problem with both of these "treatments" is that once the chick pecks anything on the ground where he originally got the germ... he has the protozoa back in his system all over again. HOPEFULLY by then, he has gained an immunity to it. If not, the chicken can still get a cocci infection, even if he has had it before. Furthermore, every time a chicken poops, and he has the protozoa in his body, he can and often will spread it to the others in the flock, including back to himself.


So really, I can not stress enough that the chicken's immune system is the ONLY actual "cure" against the cocci protozoa. Medications of ANY sort merely help keep it at bay while his body learns to fight it. This is why medicated feed "does not prevent" an infection. Because if you really think about it, every chicken out there really already has this infection. And they probably always will.


(By the way, infections that "wipe out a flock" come from new strains that the flock has never been in contact with, and is not immune to - similar to new strains of the flu virus, such as the old H1N1 Swine Flu that caused so much havoc in the world recently.)

I just found this thread and I have a few questions I hope someone can answer. On the 2 nd day of corid treatment is there something along with their feed I can give them to help them along? What if anything can I do to treat their run before allowing them back into it? They are now quarantined in the coop so I can monitor them better and figure out what to do in their run. Am very worried letting them back down. I am considering putting pea gravel down so that it gets better drainage any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.