Keeping warm in winter

[3KillerBs]

It seems they can endure all sorts of discomfort; endure being the operative word.
The cold hardy reasoning from what I've read is mainly based on they didn't drop dead; well not very many anyway.
People happily assume that a chickens feathers are there to keep them warm. What is a bird whose ancestors lived and live in a temperature range of 25 Centigrade (77F) to 38 Centigrade (100F) doing wandering around with a thermal quilt on? They don't need to be kept warm in those temperatures.
Obviously something is wrong with the reasoning process.

Over several millennia of selective breeding humans have transformed jungle birds into hardy, cold-tolerant birds to the point that many of the breeds developed for cold-winter areas suffer and fail to thrive in the heat.

In my flock, when the temperatures climb over 95F (35C), and the humidity climbs with them the Wyandottes -- a breed developed to withstand the bitter cold winters of the US Northeast -- wilt and droop, becoming far less active and retreating to the deepest shade available. I haven't lost one to the heat (having taken the precaution of sourcing them from a hatchery in Texas, where the climate is even hotter than mine), but if I ever lose birds to the heat I will expect it to be the Wyandottes.

I would not keep an even more cold-selected breed like a Chantecler in my hot climate and I wouldn't keep Jungle Fowl in New England where I used to live.

If the chickens are healthy and active, going out and about and engaging in their natural behaviors, they're fine.

 

[Shadrach]

Over several millennia of selective breeding humans have transformed jungle birds into hardy, cold-tolerant birds to the point that many of the breeds developed for cold-winter areas suffer and fail to thrive in the heat.

In my flock, when the temperatures climb over 95F (35C), and the humidity climbs with them the Wyandottes -- a breed developed to withstand the bitter cold winters of the US Northeast -- wilt and droop, becoming far less active and retreating to the deepest shade available. I haven't lost one to the heat (having taken the precaution of sourcing them from a hatchery in Texas, where the climate is even hotter than mine), but if I ever lose birds to the heat I will expect it to be the Wyandottes.

I would not keep an even more cold-selected breed like a Chantecler in my hot climate and I wouldn't keep Jungle Fowl in New England where I used to live.

If the chickens are healthy and active, going out and about and engaging in their natural behaviors, they're fine.

My chickens are cold right now. Two of them are molting and are like, totally bare butt and wing. They look awful. Its 29f out and we are having an unusually early snow storm with 2ft of snow. I keep their water unthawed and constant food, as well as bedding. But the chickens who are molting are shivering. It is only supposed to get colder.

But this posters chickens aren't apparently.
The allotment chickens here in the UK are not warm either. I know this because when they are cold they arrange their feathers differently to when they are in a comfortable temperature. The also behave differently and it's quite apparent that they are feeling the cold.
Behaviour such as lifting the wings and seeking shade are signs that a chicken is hot.
The free rangers I've cared for some of which were comfort zone tree huggers came down to the coops at around 2 Centigrade. They came down and went into their coop because they were cold I assume.

I think it's fair to say if we are prepared to accept that chickens can be too hot then they can be too cold as well.
The OP wants warm.

 

[Shadrach]

Hi All,

My chickens are cold right now. Two of them are molting and are like, totally bare butt and wing. They look awful. Its 29f out and we are having an unusually early snow storm with 2ft of snow. I keep their water unthawed and constant food, as well as bedding. But the chickens who are molting are shivering. It is only supposed to get colder.

I did a no-no and put a heat lamp in one corner. It is in an open area of the coop (I have a closed portion too) so it isn't warming the whole coop up, they can stand under it or not. I know this isn't ideal, but any other suggestions? Is it really bad that I did this?

They don't like to go in the closed up area during the day because its dark in there, they like to stand out in their "day room" which is basically a 3 sided structure with perch. Spoiled things!!

A picture of your coop and run would help.
If a chicken is shivering yes, they are cold.
Often it's the added wind chill that really bothers them. If your run is suitable then tarpaulins blocking the prevailing wind would help. Hay bales make for good wind block and insulation. It all depends on what sort of coop and run you have.

There isn't much you can do about the moulting. It reads you are keeping them well fed and watered and that's very important for fighting the cold.

 

[3KillerBs]

I think it's fair to say if we are prepared to accept that chickens can be too hot then they can be too cold as well.

It is undoubtedly possible for chickens to be too cold. And a molting bird could certainly be too cold at a higher temperature than a well-feathered one.

But if well-feathered chickens are dry and out of the wind they are going to be comfortable in much lower temperatures than humans would be.

Look at my flock a couple years ago in weather conditions that many humans would have found considerably more miserable than if it had actually been below freezing. They had free access to dry shelter, both inside their coop and under a covered canopy. They freely CHOSE to forage in their run in 40F (4.5C), rain -- being well-insulated and mostly weatherproof: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wet-hens.1442537/

Yes, they do arrange their feathers differently to hold heat -- just like we put on sweaters and jackets. I see no evidence that this means that they're uncomfortable, just that they're adjusting to conditions.

Shivering, yes, that could be worthy of concern. But if they have access to shelter and aren't using it they can't be that uncomfortable.

 

[Shadrach]

It is undoubtedly possible for chickens to be too cold. And a molting bird could certainly be too cold at a higher temperature than a well-feathered one.

But if well-feathered chickens are dry and out of the wind they are going to be comfortable in much lower temperatures than humans would be.

Look at my flock a couple years ago in weather conditions that many humans would have found considerably more miserable than if it had actually been below freezing. They had free access to dry shelter, both inside their coop and under a covered canopy. They freely CHOSE to forage in their run in 40F (4.5C), rain -- being well-insulated and mostly weatherproof: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wet-hens.1442537/

Yes, they do arrange their feathers differently to hold heat -- just like we put on sweaters and jackets. I see no evidence that this means that they're uncomfortable, just that they're adjusting to conditions.

Shivering, yes, that could be worthy of concern. But if they have access to shelter and aren't using it they can't be that uncomfortable.

My interest in this is there is no evidence that I can find that any particular breed of chicken is what one could reasonably describe as cold hardy.

 

[Krugerrand]

My interest in this is there is no evidence that I can find that any particular breed of chicken is what one could reasonably describe as cold hardy.

I think it's fair to say if we are prepared to accept that chickens can be too hot then they can be too cold as well.

I guess I'm not following what you are intending to mean as 'cold hardy.' You seem to accept that too hot or too cold is a possibility. Are you suggesting that breed type does not impact this?

And, I'm pretty sure there IS evidence ... perhaps you are not finding the evidence 'convincing.' 3KillerBs just gave anecdotal evidence of chickens playing in the cold instead of going where they could be warmer.

Yes, chickens came from the jungle. But, look at what human changes have done to dogs in a similar timeframe. A greyhound simply cannot endure the cold weather that a husky or sheltie can. There are dogs that I would certainly consider 'cold hardy' and others that are not. It's pretty reasonable that chickens can reflect similar variations.

From a natural development standpoint, consider the snowy owl. It clearly is a 'cold hardy' owl. The desert owl, ferruginous pygmy owl, and elf owl clearly are not 'cold hardy.'

So for me, from a theoretical standpoint, it seems reasonable that anecdotal observation can support the possibility that some breeds are more cold hardy than others. Some are more heat tolerant than others.

 

[Shadrach]

Are you suggesting that breed type does not impact this?

More or less.
Taking your example of the Husky. Like other creatures that inhabit sub zero environments the Huskies fur is constructed differently to dogs that have evolved in more temperate climates. Chicken feathering hasn't done this.
I read for example that cold hardy chickens grow extra feathers for the winter. That's an interesting biological trick given each feather needs a follicle to grow from. I wonder how the chicken manages that.
There is lots of stuff on comb types. While it may be true that particular comb types are less prone to frosbite, it has nothing at all to do with the overall ability of the chicken to not feel cold.
I've read cold hardy chickens have more feathers. I've yet to see any evidence that this is true.

What does make more sense is chickens that are bred in cold environments learn how to adapt to the conditions. This is learn't behaviour, not a biological change.

There are many myths about chickens that have been repeated without investigation to their validity.

There is a chicken breed in Tibet that has evolved a different lung function to cope with high altitude.

 

[Krugerrand]

the overall ability of the chicken to not feel cold.

Wow ... that's a really high bar for 'cold hardy.'

Like other creatures that inhabit sub zero environments the Huskies fur is constructed differently to dogs that have evolved in more temperate climates.

I would argue that huskies have not 'evolved' they are the way they are because they were bred that way by humans. Now granted, the dog has been being human bred for many thousands of years more than the chicken. At the same time, most of those thousands of years were probably more gradual selective breeding than the intensive breeding practices of the last 500 years for the chicken.

I've read cold hardy chickens have more feathers. I've yet to see any evidence that this is true.

Certainly, I have no evidence to share. At the same time, I will go back to pointing out that anecdotal evidence (and if we dig can probably find empirical) some breeds handle heat better than others. Is it not reasonable to conclude that feather structures that make it harder for one variety to handle heat would likely make it easier for that variety to handle cold?

What does make more sense is chickens that are bred in cold environments learn how to adapt to the conditions. This is learn't behaviour, not a biological change.

This is an interesting idea ...and I won't discount it. But, I'm not sure it is consistent with observation. Certainly it would be interesting to see experimentation with stock from various sources and varieties and see how they compare. It is very easy to accept that something is the way it is simply because it is repeated constantly. Also, many ideas supported by 'science' are done so with 'bad science.' (A great example of this is 'opossums eat ticks.') Sometimes, we just have to deal with the information we have.

I would be curious to see a comparison (feather structure, etc) between 'cold hardy' birds and their not cold hardy counterparts .... such as owls. Then, see if any differences discovers parallel different varieties of chickens.

And, we may need to distinguish between 'cold hardy' and the 'ability of the chicken to not feel cold.'

 

[3KillerBs]

My interest in this is there is no evidence that I can find that any particular breed of chicken is what one could reasonably describe as cold hardy.

How, EXACTLY do you define "cold hardy"?

There are many breeds developed in the northern US, Canada, and northern parts of Europe to live in ordinary, unheated barns throughout the severe winters found in those areas. If "surviving through a temperate zone winter in good health without suffering from cold-related illness/injury and without need of special care and facilities" doesn't define "cold hardy" then you're raising the bar on the concept to a ridiculous level.

I've read cold hardy chickens have more feathers. I've yet to see any evidence that this is true.

If you can believe that Naked Necks and Cornish X broilers have fewer feathers than normal birds why is it impossible to believe that severe-winter-selected breeds might have more feathers?

Perhaps more importantly, there are different feathering types -- the harder, closer-fitting feathers of the Mediterranean breeds and other heat-tolerant types, and the softer, fluffier feathers of the breeds developed for cooler climates.

Softer and fluffier = better insulation.

 

[Shadrach]

How, EXACTLY do you define "cold hardy"?

Well there you have it. There is no definition of cold hardy. It seems from what I've read that if they didn't die under cold conditions then they received the title of cold hardy.

why is it impossible to believe that severe-winter-selected breeds might have more feathers?

It's not impossible to believe but growing extra feathers for winter...

If "surviving through a temperate zone winter in good health without suffering from cold-related illness/injury and without need of special care and facilities" doesn't define "cold hardy" then you're raising the bar on the concept to a ridiculous level.

People have moved Jungle Fowl from tropical environments to cold environments and some at least have lived. Does this make Jungle Fowl cold hardy?