Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[Wild Iris]

We have goshawk, red-tailed kites, buzzards and kestrels; possibly others but those 4 I've seen.

Numbers matter, but not because they're food. There is an element of safety in numbers. The more on lookout, the better the warning system.

When the 'predator detected' kind of alarm call goes out, my free ranging flock forms a tight group, typically 4 or so mature roos at the edges and 10+ hens in the middle.

This presents any predator with a significantly greater risk than, say, 3 hens with or without a cockerel. Hawks do not want to risk injury from a fight with a roo - their lives depend on being in full health, with perfect vision for example, so getting a meal takes second place to preserving their faculties. So confident adult roos are enemies that hawks avoid. There are easier meals out there, and the hawk moves on to find them instead. I have found that multiple roos are an excellent defence against terrestrial predators too, though we don't have to worry about anything bigger than dogs and foxes here.

On hearing the alarm broodies and chicks (with or without a roo escort), who are usually apart from the adult flock, typically scatter in all directions to separate cover, and usually they are close to cover so disappear before the hawk arrives. Cover for a chicken means hedges, bushes and shrubs, not trees; ground level, relatively dense, and ill-lit. An isolated hen may dash for cover and/or drop flat and keep completely still.

If the attack was not detected in advance, and a commotion is caused by the strike, everybody runs full pelt, the hens for cover, the roos (or broody, if it's one of her chicks screaming) to the source of the noise, where they go into attack. I once had to rescue a kestrel from a broody.

So yes, your chickens will learn how to deal with your predators through experience. It is hard at first, but those with good instincts survive and teach the young (especially if you hatch with broodies) and chicks learn very quickly, so it only needs a couple of years for success. I have not definitely lost a bird to a predator since 2020 (a few have disappeared in those 5 years, but with no pile of feathers anywhere, and no flock trauma from witnessing such a thing, I deduce they were just lost in the case of chicks, and went off somewhere quiet to die of natural causes in the case of adults).

Thank you for going into such good detail; it's so helpful to be able to visualize a realistic, long-term goal concerning this.

Is it ever a problem to have that many roosters together in a flock? Some people say you can only have one rooster or they will kill each other, and other people say that you can have any number if you have enough space for them.

We are currently in the process of thinning our woods and making space for sunlight to penetrate--sounds like that will be a good thing for the chickens since it will allow thicker, brushier growth close to the ground.

 

[Wild Iris]

Perris covered your questions well, but I’ll add that in terms of “enemy-animals”, crows loathe hawks and will gang up to drive a hawk away. Mockingbirds, when in their belligerent stages (which seem to be always) join in.

At a minimum, even when crows don’t effectively deter a hawk, their racket creates a great early warning system.

If you can figure a way to set out feed or scratch for the crows that your chickens won’t get first, you might be able to attack ATTRACT enough for them to become allies.

Interesting! Seems like I'm always hearing crows in the distance--maybe I can find a way to bring them in a little closer. Do they pose a danger to the chickens?

 

[LaurenRitz]

Interesting! Seems like I'm always hearing crows in the distance--maybe I can find a way to bring them in a little closer. Do they pose a danger to the chickens?

They'll eat chicks and eggs if they can get them, but as far as I know they won't go after adults.

 

[LaurenRitz]

Is it ever a problem to have that many roosters together in a flock? Some people say you can only have one rooster or they will kill each other, and other people say that you can have any number if you have enough space for them.

People mostly speak of their own experience. It's really going to depend on the type of bird, the disposition, space, and rooster to hen ratio.

I had one roo (he died a few days ago) who was just fine with 3-4 girls. The other kept trying to "poach," and apparently thought 9 wasn't enough. They never fought, but the low ranking roo (the one with 9 hens) got chased away quite often.

I have never seen any of my roos fight beyond a brief flurry, usually as adolescents. It seems to be more of a technique for establishing precedence than anything else.

I know many others have the opposite experience.

***Edited to say I've never seen my ROOS fight like that. I have seen a broody take on a too-curious cockerel, and I've seen a hen fight a cockerel a few other times.

 

[Perris]

Is it ever a problem to have that many roosters together in a flock? Some people say you can only have one rooster or they will kill each other, and other people say that you can have any number if you have enough space for them.

People base their answers on their experience (or just parrot what they've read/heard before). It is an asset here, where they are free dawn to dusk, and they grow up within the flock. They naturally work as a team. They occasionally have a scuffle. Very rarely blood is drawn. The hierarchy is stable except when there are teenagers about, and most of them learn their place, or learn to bide their time, quickly. The dominant roo is not the most popular one with the hens and is not the most prolific in terms of offspring; no. 2 wins on both those counts. Hens mate with all of them.

Do they pose a danger to the chickens?

There are crows in the vicinity here too. They occasionally even land on the lawn, even near the coops. They have not to my knowledge ever taken or tried to take an egg or chick. The chickens do not raise the alarm when the crows are about, but they don't stay in sight either. I don't think crows are remotely quick enough to catch any chick or chicken here.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

People base their answers on their experience (or just parrot what they've read/heard before). It is an asset here, where they are free dawn to dusk, and they grow up within the flock. They naturally work as a team. They occasionally have a scuffle. Very rarely blood is drawn. The hierarchy is stable except when there are teenagers about, and most of them learn their place, or learn to bide their time, quickly. The dominant roo is not the most popular one with the hens and is not the most prolific in terms of offspring; no. 2 wins on both those counts. Hens mate with all of them.

There are crows in the vicinity here too. They occasionally even land on the lawn, even near the coops. They have not to my knowledge ever taken or tried to take an egg or chick. The chickens do not raise the alarm when the crows are about, but they don't stay in sight either. I don't think crows are remotely quick enough to catch any chick or chicken here.

I think what is less common with your flock (and others) than those of us newer posters is that your flock is multigenerational, both roos and hens.

Many here seem to want to create a insta-flock of two dozen hens and 3-4 roos by acquiring chickens who are all about the same age and then don’t understand why magic doesn’t happen.

Every bit of reasoned advice I’ve read about flock behavior and what to expect has come from posters like you who have “three-dimensional” flocks of multiple ages, instead of flat 2-D flocks that are more like a classroom, every member the same age, same immaturity, same lack of experience.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

I think what is less common with your flock (and others) than those of us newer posters is that your flock is multigenerational, both roos and hens.

Many here seem to want to create a insta-flock of two dozen hens and 3-4 roos by acquiring chickens who are all about the same age and then don’t understand why magic doesn’t happen.

Every bit of reasoned advice I’ve read about flock behavior and what to expect has come from posters like you who have “three-dimensional” flocks of multiple ages, instead of flat 2-D flocks that are more like a classroom, every member the same age, same immaturity, same lack of experience.

Addendum to above: I lost track of which thread you had posted on and was thinking we were on a chicken/ rooster behavior thread. I apologize! I think most posters here already have far more complex flocks than my flocklet of 3 (soon to be 5!!!!)

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

Many here seem to want to create a insta-flock of two dozen hens and 3-4 roos by acquiring chickens who are all about the same age and then don’t understand why magic doesn’t happen.

This ^ It is difficult to understand flock dynamics first hand when your “flock” is shipped day-old chicks who are raised in the house then confined to a run in a suburban backyard. I kept multiple flocks in that setting and separated them based on age for a long time (because I was raising them for someone else) but my own flock was varied ages and the youngest of those had beeb hatched and raised in the coop by a broody hen and it was a completely different experience. I also sold them as an “established flock” and explained to the buyer that she was paying for older hens because those older hens were the reason that flock was peaceful and did well in confinement.

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

Addendum to above: I lost track of which thread you had posted on and was thinking we were on a chicken/ rooster behavior thread. I apologize! I think most posters here already have far more complex flocks than my flocklet of 3 (soon to be 5!!!!)

Haha I am going back and forth between this and the chickens in the woods one and they are starting to blur in my brain too. I am really enjoying these threads though! Lots of good discussion!

 

[Perris]

Every bit of reasoned advice I’ve read about flock behavior and what to expect has come from posters like you who have “three-dimensional” flocks of multiple ages, instead of flat 2-D flocks that are more like a classroom, every member the same age, same immaturity, same lack of experience.

that's a good point.

It, and BLC's point quoted below, prompts another: that 'insta-flocks' (you have a talent for neologisms @Mother of Chaos ) are composed of unrelated members, whereas all my birds think they are related (even if actually they are not), because all but the eldest hens were hatched and raised within the flock.

I'm sure that's a key feature with regard to multiple roos getting on especially; perhaps because they all share genes, so some of their genes will be passed on whoever sires whom, and perhaps because as a large social group they are promiscuous (males mate with multiple females, females mate with multiple males). The latter also selects against hurting any chick, because in such a situation that might lead to adults killing their own offspring.

my own flock was varied ages and the youngest of those had beeb hatched and raised in the coop by a broody hen and it was a completely different experience.