Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[Chrischik]

Hi there,
This is a topic I have a lot of interest in, so I'll share my experience. In 2013, I started a free range flock that involved a thai aseel rooster, and hens of these breeds: Thai Aseel, Old English Game Bantam, Egyptian Fayoumi, Silver Phoenix, and an assortment of laying breeds whose genetics do not seems to have made the cut. Most birds were from breeders, except the Fayoumi and layers, which came from a hatchery.
Since then I have added very little new blood, relying on natural selection to play a large part in the success of the flock. Multiple broods were hatched by the hens each year. The traits that have persisted most are those of Phoenix (good mothering, predator- resistant coloring), Thai Aseel (upright posture, excellent predator awareness), and Egyptian Fayoumi (general wariness and wiliness). The Old English Game Bantam DNA has also contributed to overall appearance.
The birds are mid-sized with pea combs or small single combs and athletic builds. They are variably silver partridge, lemon partridge and wheaten. The roosters are gentle, good flock protectors, and tend toward the upright aseel build. The hens are broody, flighty, and quick, and tend toward a build more similar to an Old English Game. They lay a reasonable number of eggs in season, but once everyone goes broody, laying drops off.
The birds are also remarkably healthy. Since starting this breeding program I have had few/no issues with disease or internal parasites (I did spray Elector PSP for lice this year, but my two hatchery orpingtons were affected much more than the mixed breed chickens). I have not needed to worm in years- I suspect the birds are eating something that is a natural wormer when they forage. The birds that are taken by predators tend to be very old, very young, or low ranking cockerels. Healthy adults tend to be too fast for most predators and have a good flight ability. Those that survive to adulthood are long lived. My oldest bird of this lineage has survived near 10 years on free range (phoenix, old english, and, surprise! Antwerp bearded belgian! She's in the last photo).

My free range system involves letting the birds out of secure coops in the morning, and locking them up at night. During the hours of daylight they are free to do as they wish. If there is a predator around and I see it, I of course do go out to help drive it away. If the birds decide it's not safe and go into the pen, I will help by latching the door. Some days they are confined to the pen, such as when there is a storm or if I have company who does not prefer chickens sharing their space. So they're not fully on their own, but the chicks are hatched and raised with the flock and free range as soon as their mother decides it's time to leave the nest.

This year I'm changing it up by adding liege fighters. So far, I'm in love with their gentle, confident personalities, but other than large size, I'm not sure what they'll contribute that the flock doesn't already have.

Check out FloridaBullforg's thread if you haven't already, lots of incredible information here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-survival-junglefowl-x-liege.1424023/page-121


Sorry for the novel, here are some pictures:



View attachment 3834886View attachment 3834887View attachment 3834888View attachment 3834889
View attachment 3834903

Oh, your rooster is GORGEOUS!

 

[Backroadlogic]

Here are the birds I selected out of my flock to focus on and try to increase their presence in my flock. They are about mostly American game, with Saipan and Dominique making up around 10% of their DNA

 

[Appalachickens]

This might not be the thread for this and I don't want to derail, but I've been wondering lately if there's a way to preserve the tradition of cockfighting while removing most of the cruelty of it. I agree about it being a vicious blood sport, but on the other hand many passionate handlers put a great deal of care into their birds, not to mention gamecock breeders provide crazy people like us with tough survival chickens for our projects. I have complicated feelings about it and the whole topic really challenges my worldview, but maybe guidelines and regulations to make it more humane might work better than criminalization. That philosophy's been tested with some success with other blood sports.

There's a sport called ram fighting that's enjoyed some recent popularity in the old world. It pits two rams together in a way that mimics natural circumstances; the rams spar, the loser gives up, and they're separated. No animal gets injured or is unable to escape an attacker, and the observers still get to view an exciting bout between powerful animals humanely and legally.

Maybe something similar could be applied to cockfighting: no dubbing, no gaffs, and the fight ends when the loser gives up? Presenting a legal and humane alternative might be more effective at reducing suffering than doubling down on enforcement, especially in a culture so heavily invested personal freedoms. I'm not sure though, just an idea.

That’s an interesting idea.I wonder if the people who like going to cockfights would go for that? Sometimes it seems like the viciousness is the point. In the county where the chicken pit was shut down, they had also had a problem with human pit fighting - literally two men in a pit doing no holds barred fighting just short of killing each other.

 

[Appalachickens]

Probably scared you’re going to report him or something

Although as a breeder, he is not actually doing anything illegal.

 

[LaurenRitz]

Although as a breeder, he is not actually doing anything illegal.

No, but on a public forum you never know who might get their knickers in a twist and change their name to Karen.

 

[Appalachickens]

No, but on a public forum you never know who might get their knickers in a twist and change their name to Karen.

He was pleasant to me, so I’m not planning to cause the guy any trouble. Besides, if I need any more gamefowl, I now have someone to call.

 

[Backroadlogic]

The rest of the flock is more genetically diverse. The big rooster is more Dominique than the other rooster, probably around 40%. The hens are mostly game, the white one is 1/4 game 1/4 Dominique 1/4 leghorn 1/4 broiler. The yellow one is half silkie and half orpington I believe. there is an Easter egger x game cross that has laid and hatched out a bunch of girl so now I have a bunch of 1/4 EE x 1/4 Dominique ×1/2 game hens running around still laying blue eggs. Plus a few 90% game pullets. Free range 24x7

 

[Vulpes vulpes]

That’s an interesting idea.I wonder if the people who like going to cockfights would go for that? Sometimes it seems like the viciousness is the point. In the county where the chicken pit was shut down, they had also had a problem with human pit fighting - literally two men in a pit doing no holds barred fighting just short of killing each other.

@Shadrach was talking a while back about some fighting cock keepers he spoke with, he wrote about how they pampered their birds up to and including applying oils to their legs and feet to keep the scales moisturized. I don't know how much this culture differs between Appalachia and the UK, but I imagine those handlers might seriously consider an opportunity to continue their hobby/tradition with less harm coming to the birds, should such an opportunity arise.

I couldn't tell you one way or another about the audience showing up to/betting on the fight though...

(j just now realized the second party is the main demographic you were referring to... My bad. I'm posting this as is anyway because I thought it was a really interesting anecdote)