Lavender Ameraucana Breeders .... UNITE

[samouw]

Jen,

Please don't get frustrated, but the fact is that blue (Bl) chickens don't breed true. You can qualify it and say that they theoretically breed true 50% of the time or that they don't breed true 1//2 the time, but since they don't breed true (as in always) then they don't breed true (according to the definition). A simple Punnet Square will prove it.
Here are just a few sites that address the subject...





Please join the Ameraucana Alliance. Membership starts at just $10 per year and a wealth of information comes with it!

Since we are talking about poultry, and specifically breeds accepted into the APA/ABA Standard - ie. Ameraucana, breeding true is defined as the APA/ABA accepted definition; ergo, "breeding true" is accepted as valid if like bred to like produces like at least 50% of the time.

 

[WVduckchick]

In my opinion, its the use of the terminology.

Blue to blue will produce "true blue" birds... but theoretically, only half the time. Unlike lav to lav - 100% of the time.

The resulting blues will still produce more true blue birds, generation upon generation... just half the time.

 

[FowlStuff]

In my opinion, its the use of the terminology.

Blue to blue will produce "true blue" birds... but theoretically, only half the time. Unlike lav to lav - 100% of the time.

The resulting blues will still produce more true blue birds, generation upon generation... just half the time.

Quote: http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/ARTI...Laws Adding Breeds-Varieties to Standard.pdf
Your statements are true, as you phrase them. Note the quote from the APA, above, avoids saying "true" without qualifications. This is because by definition true means 100%, as in a court room where folks tell the "truth" and further define it so there is no misunderstanding to be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The word true is the same...it either is true or not true, it either breeds true or not true.

 

[WVduckchick]

Your statements are true, as you phrase them. Note the quote from the APA, above, avoids saying "true" without qualifications. This is because by definition true means 100%, as in a court room where folks tell the "truth" and further define it so there is no misunderstanding to be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The word true is the same...it either is true or not true, it either breeds true or not true.

I understand what you are saying. I'm just expressing why I think the confusion exists.

 

[Prpjewel]

I saw a couple of her LF self-blue hens at the Dixie Classic and was very impressed! Excellent type and color.  I think you'll be very happy with those.

You are absolutely correct. I am just being greedy and wanting more bantams to have double the birds since they are so small and cute. I KNOW I'm going to love Lindsay's birds and can't wait!

 

[fowlman01]

Since we are talking about poultry, and specifically breeds accepted into the APA/ABA Standard - ie. Ameraucana, breeding true is defined as the APA/ABA accepted definition; ergo, "breeding true" is accepted as valid if like bred to like produces like at least 50% of the time.

This is true. The APA and ABA only require that a recognized variety breed true 50 percent of the time.

Walt

 

[samouw]

This is true. The APA and ABA only require that a recognized variety breed true 50 percent of the time.

Walt

Thank you, Walt, for that clarification.

For the newer members, Walt is the Chairman of the APA Standards Committee.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Jen,

Please don't get frustrated, but the fact is that blue (Bl) chickens don't breed true.  You can qualify it and say that they theoretically breed true 50% of the time or that they don't breed true 1//2 the time, but since they don't breed true (as in always) then they don't breed true (according to the definition).  A simple Punnet Square will prove it.
Here are just a few sites that address the subject...

 




Please join the Ameraucana Alliance.  Membership starts at just $10 per year and a wealth of information comes with it!

John,

My frustration with the blanket statement 'blue doesn't breed true' is that so many newcomers get that exact same qualifier, along with others, when faced with the realization that their Easter Eggers aren't true Ameraucanas... they don't breed true is one of the very first things they are told... so having that same statement applied to a color that is accepted in many breeds by the APA makes it appear that there are double standards being adhered to... that can be very confusing for many that don't understand exactly how the blue gene works in breeding...

Perhaps a more apt statement would be 'as breeding blue is more complicated than other colors'...

And for one who said they came to this forum to inform and educate it's rather bad form to request others to go elsewhere and pay a fee for said information...

 

[fowlman01]

So even this guy agrees with me...blue chickens do not breed true.

Actually I agree with very little that you say. You and your club have been at odds with the APA for quite some time.

Walt

 

[FowlStuff]

John,

My frustration with the blanket statement 'blue doesn't breed true' is that so many newcomers get that exact same qualifier, along with others, when faced with the realization that their Easter Eggers aren't true Ameraucanas... they don't breed true is one of the very first things they are told... so having that same statement applied to a color that is accepted in many breeds by the APA makes it appear that there are double standards being adhered to... that can be very confusing for many that don't understand exactly how the blue gene works in breeding...

Perhaps a more apt statement would be 'as breeding blue is more complicated than other colors'...

And for one who said they came to this forum to inform and educate it's rather bad form to request others to go elsewhere and pay a fee for said information...

Education is the answer for those that are confused and think a double standard appears. I'm only addressing this topic on this forum because many may read that "blue does breed true" and believe it or that the APA/ABA defines "breeding true" as at least 50% of the time when they don't. Proper education means correcting these falsehoods before more are confused and lead astray. I certainly don't want anyone repeating those statements as facts. I encourage fanciers to join the Ameraucana Alliance to benefit from all the information and experiences our breed club has to offer.
If someone said their statement was "true" but 50% was actually false then their statement wasn't true. This is due to the definition of the word "true", not something I made up. Likewise, since the blue variety only produces blue offspring 50% of the time...they do not breed true.
The APA/ABA have never stated that if a variety breeds true at least 50% of the time that is the same as "breeding true". They only say that to be considered for Standard recognition a variety (or even a breed) has to breed true at least 50% of the time.