Lavender Breeds

[Sonoran Silkies]

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Actually, the term "self" is more commonly used to denote a bird who is completely one hue and shade. No darker hackles, saddle, etc.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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Self-blue has been a recognised variety for many years in some breeds: OEGB, and Modern games, for example. Self-blue silkies were APA recognised last December and ABA recognised this past March.

 

[Timmy]

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The way I understand self blue is that it is a basically splash with a recessive lavender gene added. It is a double dilute of black and was probably accidentally produced by breeding blues. that is just a guess as to its origins. To my knowledge there is not a reliable way to set out to make this color by breeding other colors together. It's more something that happens by chance.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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The way I understand self blue is that it is a basically splash with a recessive lavender gene added. It is a double dilute of black and was probably accidentally produced by breeding blues. that is just a guess as to its origins. To my knowledge there is not a reliable way to set out to make this color by breeding other colors together. It's more something that happens by chance.

Splash (andalusian blue) has nothing to do with it. Self-blue is two copies of the lavender gene. Yes, both blue and lavender (and dun and choc) dilute black pigment, but they are (all) separate genes. You cannot "create" any of them--you have to breed them in from a bird that already has the gene.

 

[sonew123]

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Your birds look great. What kind are those? Orps? Do you sell fertilized eggs?

Their birds are lavender orpingtons and they are gorgeous!!! Oh and lavender araucanas--

You can just click on their " website" under their avatar for a list of what they have and possibly sells Got white orps from them last year and had a great hatch!!!

 

[Timmy]

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The way I understand self blue is that it is a basically splash with a recessive lavender gene added. It is a double dilute of black and was probably accidentally produced by breeding blues. that is just a guess as to its origins. To my knowledge there is not a reliable way to set out to make this color by breeding other colors together. It's more something that happens by chance.

Splash (andalusian blue) has nothing to do with it. Self-blue is two copies of the lavender gene. Yes, both blue and lavender (and dun and choc) dilute black pigment, but they are (all) separate genes. You cannot "create" any of them--you have to breed them in from a bird that already has the gene.

I understand that self blue is a separate gene from andalusian blue, that it does not have lacing, that it takes two copies of the lavender gene to make it, that it "breeds true", and that you can not set out to create this color with out those genes. However it came from somewhere and as I understand the path that it took diluting from black was adding blue to black to create blue. Then blue to blue to create splash. Then lavender to splash to create lavender. I know you can't just breed a splash bird to a self blue bird and have self blue offspring, but it is my understanding that at some point someone took two andalusion blues, or two slashes, or two blacks, or some combination of the three that each carried a lavander gene and created at least two self blue colored birds. I have no first hand knowledge of this color and all the knowledge I do have comes from what I have read so it is highly likely that you know more on this subject than I do. So if you can inform me further on this, or correct me I would appreciate it. I am always willing to learn something new.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I'll have to see if I can find the history, but am pretty sure it did not come from blue breeding. It became an APA recognised variety for Old Engish Game Bantams in 1965. http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92855&page=1 has a long discussion on the origin of lavender, and quotes a reference written in 1940. THere were also references of isolating it from porcelains.

 

[Timmy]

Cool thanks for the link. I'll have to read that forum. I haven't seen anything saying what the source of the lavender gene is for sure. I for one would love to know. Honestly I think it is somewhat of a mystery. It was more than likely a fluke or a random mutation, but who knows. As far as isolating it from porcelain. That makes sense to a point, but I was under the impression that porcelain was created by adding the lavender gene to the mille fleur color (at least in old English). So were did the lavender gene that they isolated in the porcelains come from? Thanks again I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative. I'm just interested and have questions.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

There are many genes that have been around for many, mnay years, but are only getting "recognition" as they move from game breeds into exhibition breeds. Or that have been in Europe, but not America; or in native landfowl, but not widespread breeds, or, ...

 

[Timmy]

Ok so I skimmed that thread and it didn't really answer the question of origin. I think it is pretty clear that it was not from porcelains as one poster mentioned, and that the gene is found in porcelains because it was key in creating them. The information that it is a melanistic (spelling?) mutation of Chromosome 7 was interesting but did little to answer the question of origin. I will have to reread it latter. As far as recognition I think it has been recognized for a long time. In fact that may be part of the issue I'm having.