Lavender Orpington project ....

[wilds of pa]

using blue would be a beginning project and so rightly called a project, esp coming into the lav game so late...

For ours we no longer consider ours a project but true lavender orpingtons.

our next gen, 7th mind you Lav orps will be wonderful

and our LF Lavender Araucana are so sweet and just about complete as well.
our 5 gen lavender araucana have just begun to lay. watch for a article we are working on for the blue clucker (The Araucana club of America) this coming year 2012 on how the project started and how its coming along..



then back to playing around with black mottled orps and lemon cuckoo

and of course we are about to set some cuckoo orp eggs carrying lav for a test hatch to see the outcome and % of chicks within a hatch....will share pic's once results are seen..

 

[lagunitas]

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[OSUman]

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Do you have any pictures? of the Lavs

 

[galanie]

Makes sense to me that since Blue is a separate gene from Lavender that you would be putting some complicating factors in the mix. I dont' want lavenders, I'm going for blues, but I've learned a lot from this thread about genetics.

 

[OSUman]

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It would be very easy to separate the Chocolates with the heterozygous blue gene (Mauve) from the Chocolates that are pure Chocolate. You wouldnt have to worry about marking them more then just marking how you would mark the blacks.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

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And again....

The less genetics we have to deal with, the better we are. Its not you can't use a Blue. Its just not wise to open that can of worms. There are some selling eggs from a "Splash Lavender" Orpington.

 

[pips&peeps]

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The Master has spoken!

Black birds can carry the pattern gene also, it's just not expressed because the whole feather is black. Most birds of US heritage do not carry the pattern gene anyway.

 

[wilds of pa]

pips&peeps wrote:
Black birds can carry the pattern gene also, it's just not expressed because the whole feather is black. Most birds of US heritage do not carry the pattern gene anyway

thats why one "must know what they got" when using a bird in there breeding pens.
for those that do not or assume they do, learn the hard way and failure is at hand....

like the old saying goes
try try again

 

[jeremy]

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Why would you have to wait for a longer period of time to know if you have a Blue bird split to Lavender?

Lavender X Black= 100% visually Black birds, split to Lavender
Lavender X Blue= 50% visually Black birds, split to Lavender and 50% visually Blue birds split to Lavender

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This doesn't explain to me why using Blue birds in a Lavender program would be a bad thing. This is nothing more than an outline of your understanding of the Blue gene and how it works.

You do mention the pattern gene but don't really outline what this could do to a Lav bird.

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As long as you keep good records, using toe punches, etc. then I don't see why it would be hard to identify what birds carry what genes.

If you were to "lose track" of who carried what then test breeding would be the simplest and most effective way to figure out what birds carried the genes you wanted to continue propagating in future generations.

You also mentioned selling birds to an unsuspecting buyer... honestly, IMO no birds from any breeding project should ever be released until they are completely "finished".

If that had been the case then we wouldn't have all of these scraggly, leggy non-Orpington type looking birds running around all over the place.

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I also respect Mr. Shaffer's opinion, he is a very knowledgeable man.

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This makes sense to me, again it comes down to keeping good records of what you're breeding as any responsible breeder should.

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This is true. My Orpington flock is largely Blue and Splash, I actually only have 1 Black hen. She is lovely but a few of my Blue girls have much better type than Thelma does.

Well, my Blues have much better type when being judged towards the British SOP, my Black hen Thelma actually has a longer back and lower tail angle than some of my other English girls, she's still much much rounder than most American bred birds but she probably would be a good start to a Lav project if I was shooting for an American SOP looking bird.

Which I'm not. I will only ever breed my Orpingtons to the British Standard of Perfection.

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Essentially this is true. Introducing an English Lavender bird would also bring in a new bloodline to the project, further diversifying the gene pool.

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You continue to state "facts" but you cite no sources or references to back this information up.

What folks?

What books?

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Agreed Bill, projects are supposed to be fun. Honestly, no one is ever going to have the same idea or thought process as someone else, it's basic human nature to have differences of opinion. That's what makes life interesting though.

Thank you for your words about my flock, I'll take them as a compliment.

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Key words here "unless you keep excellent records".

Like I've said before- if you do keep excellent records, which a responsible breeder does, then there should be no issue with using Blue Orps in a Lav program.

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I would also like to see pictures of these birds that you're no longer calling a project.

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This is true.

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This is not necessarily true.

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I don't want Lavenders either, at least none that I have seen so far.

I'll continue breeding my Blue, Black, Splash, I also plan on adding Jubilee and Diamond Jubilee as well as Mottled (and eventually Blue Mottled) to my Orpington line up.

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Have you really though? I feel like threads like this is what ultimately confuse people even more, because a lot of it is conversation and nothing honestly is backed up by facts. So folks read along and pick and choose whatever they can comprehend best and then take that information and run with it... whether it's true or not, then it spreads like wildfire and we somehow get to where we are now... with everyone thinking that using Blue birds is bad for a Lavender breeding program.

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Do you mean a Splash Orpington split to Lavender?

pips&peeps :

Black birds can carry the pattern gene also, it's just not expressed because the whole feather is black. Most birds of US heritage do not carry the pattern gene anyway.

True. This is why a lot of the Imported Blue Orpingtons have much better lacing than their American SOP cousins.​

 

[lagunitas]

This is true. My Orpington flock is largely Blue and Splash, I actually only have 1 Black hen. She is lovely but a few of my Blue girls have much better type than Thelma does.

Well, my Blues have much better type when being judged towards the British SOP, my Black hen Thelma actually has a longer back and lower tail angle than some of my other English girls, she's still much much rounder than most American bred birds but she probably would be a good start to a Lav project if I was shooting for an American SOP looking bird.

Which I'm not. I will only ever breed my Orpingtons to the British Standard of Perfection.

Thelma wants to come live at my house. Just sayin'.