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Why would you have to wait for a longer period of time to know if you have a Blue bird split to Lavender?
Lavender X Black= 100% visually Black birds, split to Lavender
Lavender X Blue= 50% visually Black birds, split to Lavender and 50% visually Blue birds split to Lavender
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This doesn't explain to me why using Blue birds in a Lavender program would be a bad thing. This is nothing more than an outline of your understanding of the Blue gene and how it works.
You do mention the pattern gene but don't really outline what this could do to a Lav bird.
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As long as you keep good records, using toe punches, etc. then I don't see why it would be hard to identify what birds carry what genes.
If you were to "lose track" of who carried what then test breeding would be the simplest and most effective way to figure out what birds carried the genes you wanted to continue propagating in future generations.
You also mentioned selling birds to an unsuspecting buyer... honestly,
IMO no birds from any breeding project should ever be released until they are completely "finished".
If that had been the case then we wouldn't have all of these scraggly, leggy non-Orpington type looking birds running around all over the place.
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I also respect Mr. Shaffer's opinion, he is a very knowledgeable man.
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This makes sense to me, again it comes down to keeping good records of what you're breeding as any responsible breeder should.
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This is true. My Orpington flock is largely Blue and Splash, I actually only have 1 Black hen. She is lovely but a few of my Blue girls have much better type than Thelma does.
Well, my Blues have much better type when being judged towards the British SOP, my Black hen Thelma actually has a longer back and lower tail angle than some of my other English girls, she's still much much rounder than most American bred birds but she probably would be a good start to a Lav project if I was shooting for an American SOP looking bird.
Which I'm not. I will only ever breed my Orpingtons to the British Standard of Perfection.
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Essentially this is true. Introducing an English Lavender bird would also bring in a new bloodline to the project, further diversifying the gene pool.
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You continue to state "facts" but you cite no sources or references to back this information up.
What folks?
What books?
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Agreed Bill, projects are supposed to be fun. Honestly, no one is ever going to have the same idea or thought process as someone else, it's basic human nature to have differences of opinion. That's what makes life interesting though.
Thank you for your words about my flock, I'll take them as a compliment.
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Key words here "unless you keep excellent records".
Like I've said before- if you do keep excellent records, which a responsible breeder does, then there should be no issue with using Blue Orps in a Lav program.
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I would also like to see pictures of these birds that you're no longer calling a project.
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This is true.
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This is not necessarily true.
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I don't want Lavenders either, at least none that I have seen so far.
I'll continue breeding my Blue, Black, Splash, I also plan on adding Jubilee and Diamond Jubilee as well as Mottled (and eventually Blue Mottled) to my Orpington line up.
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Have you really though? I feel like threads like this is what ultimately confuse people even more, because a lot of it is conversation and nothing honestly is backed up by facts. So folks read along and pick and choose whatever they can comprehend best and then take that information and run with it... whether it's true or not, then it spreads like wildfire and we somehow get to where we are now... with everyone thinking that using Blue birds is bad for a Lavender breeding program.
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Do you mean a Splash Orpington
split to Lavender?
pips&peeps :
Black birds can carry the pattern gene also, it's just not expressed because the whole feather is black. Most birds of US heritage do not carry the pattern gene anyway.
True. This is why a lot of the Imported Blue Orpingtons have much better lacing than their American SOP cousins.
