Lavender Orpington project ....

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
As pips&peeps said:
Both the United Orpington Club (established many years ago) and the Ameraucana Club will likely have the qualifying meet at the same time, so we can gear it towards getting the LAVENDER term accepted with the APA.

 

[hinkjc]

Jim, thanks for working on a draft of the standard. I sent you my input privately. Let me know if you need any help with this.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Jody,



At present the ONLY APA Self Blue standard we have is the OEG. Not much to go on. I have emailed a copy to the Standard Committee for their input. The advantage we have is, we can change the standard up to when it is submitted for acceptance. Then the committee may make changes. Nothing is written in stone until it is accepted. It would be best to make the standard as close as possible to what is attainable, yet to be enough of a challenge that not every bird attains it. I have seen Orpingtons that attained every part of their standard in color, yet failed in type. I think the lavender gene is more easily attainable than the type. Type is always more difficult.



With the Self Blue/Lavender it will take time. However, if your F6 attains the type with color, there is no reason why an application for acceptance can not be made. It will take five breeders certifying they have bred them for 5 years, plus entries of fifty birds at two qualifying meets. At present the term Lavender will not be accepted. Some breeds are going to hold out for that. I think it will harm the variety and sales if we wait. The standard committees are very stuborn. The Silkies went ahead and went with Self Blue and was accepted. If an ugly silkie can get in, surely a lovely Orpington can! (No offence intended, just never liked black skinned birds).



As the creator of the American Lavender/Self Blue Orpington, go ahead and take your liberty and make whatever changes you deem neccessary. Keep in mind, I quoted directly from the SOP. The terms can not be changed. Leg color, eye color etc can be altered, but the committee will stick with its proven format. If you feel the leg color should be a bit lighter, then so be it. Eye color as well. You have raised many more of these than we have.

 

[klf73]

I don't think there really is a rush to get them accepted is there? I just don't get it I guess.
as for harming the variety and sales????
who does this for money other than the hatcheries??
this, as with all colors/varieties is a buyer beware...how many get duped with "ameraucana"?...

I think if enough dedicated people put in the effort acceptance in inevitable, but with ALL other breeds(those with heritage birds should know) there are plenty of people "ruining" those breeds. There are so many breeds listed in the ALBC that hatcheries sell that the buyers think they got this "rare breed", it won't be long before they jump on the lavender orp bandwagon IMO. You can't control what others do, just breed to the best of your ability and associate yourself with others that are like minded

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Thus the reason we need a Standard for the variety. even if they are not accepted yet, we all need a Stanadrd to breed to. Otherwise, we have some with dark eyes, others with light eyes etc. Even with a standard, we see folks selling "pure" Buff Orpingtons on ebay that may be "pure" but have not met the standard in 20+ years. The type is off, teh size is small and so forth. My intention is not to start a disagreement, but to have input from others so we can all come to an agreement and have a standard to breed these to. We can wait 10+ years for acceptance, but if the entries at that qualifying meet look like a count fair, it will be denied. We must be breeding to a Standard now if they are to ever get accepted. (No matter what Club sponsors them). This si not about a club or a variety name. It is about what a Standard should be for the Lavender/Self Blue Orpington. Type is already settled by the current SOP. The feather color is also settled by the current SOP. However, leg and eye color is still debatable.

The lav gene is clearly described on page 184 of the SOP. The Orpington type is clear. So there is really very little room to wiggle. If we have a standard, we can provide a copy to the show officials prior to judging and who knows. At the APA Semi-Annual a non-standard color (Buff) of Chantecle won Best of Breed over a stanadrd color (Partridge). It could not win Champion American, but its quality was such that it won Best of Breed. Can we get a Lavender/SB Orpington to such a state it could beat a Stanadrd color?

 

[klf73]

are there genotypes etc that keep the lav from adhering to the BBS Standard? except for, of course, the feather color?
I was working on an ameraucana project, just was breeding toward the black/blue standard, except for color of feathering, obviously
I guess it just seems like a no brainer to me...I dont' want to debate it but I just assumed you follow the same guidelines as another color in that variety, with exceptions to where it is not genetically possible (i.e. mottled will not be accepted to ameraucana because of let color, without an exemption, because the mottle gene does not let the legs stay solid slate)
guess I will have to look into the lavs a little more...mine are still growing...as well as my b/b/s....guess I need an edu-macation

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
It really is a no brainer. Orpington standard + OEG Self Blue Color Standard= Self Blue/Lavender Orpington Stanadrd.

Jody did Pm with questions on leg, eye and beak color. We are dealing with a different breed than OE or Am. So since Jody has reared these longer than the rest of us, I would bow to her thoughts on this. We can not change the actual type or the feather color, but a slight breed variouance of eye, shank and beak color is possible. To just have a completed standard printed off and laminated to post on my coops would be nice. Many judges will copy the standard for a breed, laminate it and post it next to their coops. Makes it much easier to judge a bird in the breeding pen. And who wants to carry a $59 SOP out to a chicken coop full of poop! Not me.

 

[tgrlily]

Quote:
It really is a no brainer. Orpington standard + OEG Self Blue Color Standard= Self Blue/Lavender Orpington Stanadrd.

Jody did Pm with questions on leg, eye and beak color. We are dealing with a different breed than OE or Am. So since Jody has reared these longer than the rest of us, I would bow to her thoughts on this. We can not change the actual type or the feather color, but a slight breed variouance of eye, shank and beak color is possible. To just have a completed standard printed off and laminated to post on my coops would be nice. Many judges will copy the standard for a breed, laminate it and post it next to their coops. Makes it much easier to judge a bird in the breeding pen. And who wants to carry a $59 SOP out to a chicken coop full of poop! Not me.

Just my humble opinion, for what little it's worth --

Jody should also be able to decide if they're called Lavender or Self Blue. Heck -- if she decided to call them Purple or Pearl Grey or Heliotrope, I'd follow her. She has done way more than just "rear" them. She created the American Lavender Orpington. I peronally feel it's extremely disrespectful and presumptuous to rename a variety that you didn't create, especially if the person who did create them has already named them.

Also --- Look at different breeds with the same coloring. A colored Dorking Male is the same color/pattern as a GoldenDuckwing OEG & a Golden Phoenix. Black Breasted Red, Red Duckwing & Red(as in Dorkings) is also the same. Then there are the colors that are the same name, but different descriptions ie: Red & Wheaten. Look at a Red Dorking, then at a Rhode Island Red or a Red Sussex. A female Wheaten Ameraucana's resemblance to the color Wheaten on many other breeds ends with the name. I can go on & on, but I don't see the point. Exceptions in names have already been made, so the precidents have been set. Nothing is written in stone that if a breed exists in a color variety that other similar colors of different breeds have to have the same name.

Jumping off my soap-box now.

 

[klf73]

no disrespect to Jody, but a "the" color has a name(well, names), why make up a new one? If I develop a mille fleur ameraucana, can I name it something else? It just doesn't make sense to me, sorry. It takes more than one person to create anything for it to thrive and prosper, although she should have say, giving omnipotent power seems just wrong to me

. I am working on lav araucana, most birds come from Jody, and I respect that and call them what she calls them, but others too have put a LOT of time and effort into it, shouldn't they get a "vote" too? I just look at things a little objectively

. I personally don't care what they are called so I don't have an opinion either way, same with the ameraucana....as long as the birds look the way they should I am happy. Maybe simplisitic....but I have enough to stress over than to worry about what "name" they get .... when it all gets figured out can someone pm me and let me know what to call my birds

 

[wilds of pa]

in the USA self blue and the Lavender gene will always be connected no matter what is chosen.. However Lavender sounds much better then self blue, plus lavender flowers smell wonderful,
part of the wording self blue, is sometimes confused with Andalusian blue to some folks..

we could go with pearl gray as well, but not as pretty sounding.

As with our Lavender Orps & Lavender Araucana, self blue is fine, because its already established in the standards and would be the easiest rout to go,.

However It will be hard calling them that for me, but i would get use to it sooner or later
self blue Orpington and self blue Araucana = Lavender Gen