Layer feed question.

[Ihavesomechickens]

Of course layer feed doesn't make them lay. I have never had a chicken go more than 22 weeks to lay is all I'm saying. So many problems on here I have never had. Guess I've been lucky over the years. Feed companies would not state you can feed layer at 16-18 weeks if it is going to be detrimental to your birds. Layer is a problem for birds not laying for a long period of time. I feed layer through molt most times, as again the birds are not going a long time without laying & they molt at different times. I do prefer at least 18% for the layer feed. I think many people over think things & cause themselves all sorts of problems. Do what is right in your situation & enjoy your birds.

Okay. Let me give you a run down on how extra calcium effects a non laying bird.

So we start at the beginning, the bird eats the layer feed.

After it passes the crop and gets into the digestive system, the calcium it needs gets absorbed. In a laying bird, they need more calcium so the extra calcium gets absorbed, but it doesn’t quite do so well in non laying birds. It still gets absorbed into the body but the bird doesn’t need it. It then reaches the kidney, where the kidney has to work too hard for its own good and may start failing.

Feed companies don’t care about the health of the bird, they care about the cash. The money. The dough. They would love it if they could feed expensive layer feed to everything. The sooner they get you to start feeding it to your flock, the longer they get that stream of money from you.

Different breeds start laying at different times. You can’t expect a silkie to start laying at the same time as a red sexlink, as they are far different breeds and were breed to do different tasks. A bird bred for show won’t lay as many eggs and will lay later as they don’t have the same genes and one that was bred for laying and has the genes to start laying early.

Having them not lay for a short time and being fed layer feed is no different then having them feed that excess calcium for a long amount of time. It’s like saying that eating rat poison is fine for a short amount of time. It’s not, and you shouldn’t do it.

Don’t feed your birds layer feed unless the birds eating it are laying. If you cant separate the birds to feed them all different feed based on what they need, feed them something that they can all eat without being harmed. If you can’t even change all of their feed because you don’t want to, you shouldn’t have a flock at all. Having good or even decent animal husbandry means you try your best to make them not have to suffer, you respect their limits and don’t push them to the brink of injury or death, and you feed them what they need.

And for everyone that thinks that the chickens will be fine being feed excess calcium, that makes me think of you as a person that favors ease of labor over the health of another living being.

And if you don’t care and want to feed them what they don’t need, I can’t force you not to. I can only educate you on what is right and wrong based on science and not experience. Facts based off years of studies, studies run by people that have spent their whole lives figuring out how diet affects flora and fauna alike. Twenty years of experience doesn’t even get close to the decades, maybe even centuries, of research done by experts.

But again, I can’t force you to do anything. I can’t prove anything to some people and I can’t sway anyone’s opinions. But I advise you all to do your own research, look at all the studies and experiments done to find out what to feed your flock, and make an educated opinion based on what you believe.

 

[Cindy in PA]

So much I could say. i don't think feed companies are interested in making more money off of layer feed, since starter & all flock is priced higher. I have seen so many rules come & go on this board & with the expert bloggers & such. I don't deny that long term feeding of layer feed to a non-laying hen or rooster can cause damage. I do love being told if I don't follow someone else's rules, I shouldn't have chickens. So many jump on here & parrot what others have said & in time it all becomes gospel. Going to put my poor hens up for sale & call it a day or maybe I will just follow what I learned when I started & quit listening to the internet experts that came along since chickens became cool in 2008!

 

[Ihavesomechickens]

So much I could say. i don't think feed companies are interested in making more money off of layer feed, since starter & all flock is priced higher. I have seen so many rules come & go on this board & with the expert bloggers & such. I don't deny that long term feeding of layer feed to a non-laying hen or rooster can cause damage. I do love being told if I don't follow someone else's rules, I shouldn't have chickens. So many jump on here & parrot what others have said & in time it all becomes gospel. Going to put my poor hens up for sale & call it a day or maybe I will just follow what I learned when I started & quit listening to the internet experts that came along since chickens became cool in 2008!

Okay. This is the reason why I am studying poultry so that I can teach people how to take care of their flock properly. I have been in chicken keeping since the late nineties, as I was raised on a farm with animals. I’m not saying that you should sell your chickens, I’m saying that maybe you should do a bit of research and make sure you are able to responsibility keep animals before you buy them. I’m saying that maybe you shouldn’t abuse animals to make a point you are better then other people.

And why would it matter when someone started raising chickens or know what’s best for them? Someone can be raising chickens for a few years and be way more educated then someone that has been raising chickens for decades.

I have seen firsthand the effects a poor diet can do to an animal and I’m sorry if your gate keeping is interfering with me trying to educate people on how to take care of their animals.

Again you brought up the point that short term feeding of something that will eventually lead to death of an animal is fine. That’s basically saying that if you eat rat poison for a long period of time you will suffer health problems, but only eating it for a short time will be a ok.

Again, I’m sorry if trying to educate people on the health risks of feeding non laying poultry layer feed has gotten in the way of you gate keeping. Sorry but just because someone hasn’t been raising chickens for longer than you doesn’t mean you are right.

And for the last time, they aren’t my rules. Not feeding bleach to a dog isn’t the vets rules but people still don’t do it because they have common sense. And if you have trouble recognizing people can be more informed on certain subjects then you then maybe you should take a break from the internet and focus on getting your priorities straight.

- sincerely,
Ihavesomechickens.

 

[wamtazlady]

Okay. This is the reason why I am studying poultry so that I can teach people how to take care of their flock properly. I have been in chicken keeping since the late nineties, as I was raised on a farm with animals. I’m not saying that you should sell your chickens, I’m saying that maybe you should do a bit of research and make sure you are able to responsibility keep animals before you buy them. I’m saying that maybe you shouldn’t abuse animals to make a point you are better then other people.

And why would it matter when someone started raising chickens or know what’s best for them? Someone can be raising chickens for a few years and be way more educated then someone that has been raising chickens for decades.

I have seen firsthand the effects a poor diet can do to an animal and I’m sorry if your gate keeping is interfering with me trying to educate people on how to take care of their animals.

Again you brought up the point that short term feeding of something that will eventually lead to death of an animal is fine. That’s basically saying that if you eat rat poison for a long period of time you will suffer health problems, but only eating it for a short time will be a ok.

Again, I’m sorry if trying to educate people on the health risks of feeding non laying poultry layer feed has gotten in the way of you gate keeping. Sorry but just because someone hasn’t been raising chickens for longer than you doesn’t mean you are right.

And for the last time, they aren’t my rules. Not feeding bleach to a dog isn’t the vets rules but people still don’t do it because they have common sense. And if you have trouble recognizing people can be more informed on certain subjects then you then maybe you should take a break from the internet and focus on getting your priorities straight.

- sincerely,
Ihavesomechickens.

Educating people is great. However, if you insult them before you do the educating they will most likely not listen to you. It is not what you said, it is how you said it.

 

[Ihavesomechickens]

Educating people is great. However, if you insult them before you do the educating they will most likely not listen to you. It is not what you said, it is how you said it.

I know I was a bit snarky in the second post, but in the first post I was trying my best to be nice. I have small anger control issues and after @Cindy in PA responded with this;

So much I could say. i don't think feed companies are interested in making more money off of layer feed, since starter & all flock is priced higher. I have seen so many rules come & go on this board & with the expert bloggers & such. I don't deny that long term feeding of layer feed to a non-laying hen or rooster can cause damage. I do love being told if I don't follow someone else's rules, I shouldn't have chickens. So many jump on here & parrot what others have said & in time it all becomes gospel. Going to put my poor hens up for sale & call it a day or maybe I will just follow what I learned when I started & quit listening to the internet experts that came along since chickens became cool in 2008!

I began to think she wanted people to know that she was the expert more than she wanted to be educated. She was a bit sassy and basically disregarded all of the information I had previously stated saying that outdated information was more reliable then recent information found using modern processes and more data.

I’m sorry if I came off as rude and am deeply sorry. I get very angry at people patronizing me and am sorry if I over reacted.

 

[Cindy in PA]

@Ihavesomechickens I get what you are saying, really. I just take a simpler approach & a chicken not laying for a week is not going to die from layer feed. Since the chicken boom in 2008, we have gotten diapers, leashes, special toys & all sorts of stuff. You can get special supplements, treats. Chickens need good feed, clean water, a clean environment & space. My point is, that I learned from a very simple magazine article that had all the basics many years ago. I have been successful at keeping my hens healthy & laying all these years. They are treated well. Not everyone has to take poultry science to be able to keep chickens. My chickens lay on time, never have diseases & lay well. I have lost what I can count on one hand. There is much to learn, but chickens aren't going to die as fast as some believe, if you make a mistake. Don't get me started on keeping 12 hens in a tiny coop! Keep on educating!

 

[Ihavesomechickens]

@Ihavesomechickens I get what you are saying, really. I just take a simpler approach & a chicken not laying for a week is not going to die from layer feed. Since the chicken boom in 2008, we have gotten diapers, leashes, special toys & all sorts of stuff. You can get special supplements, treats. Chickens need good feed, clean water, a clean environment & space. My point is, that I learned from a very simple magazine article that had all the basics many years ago. I have been successful at keeping my hens healthy & laying all these years. They are treated well. Not everyone has to take poultry science to be able to keep chickens. My chickens lay on time, never have diseases & lay well. I have lost what I can count on one hand. There is much to learn, but chickens aren't going to die as fast as some believe, if you make a mistake. Don't get me started on keeping 12 hens in a tiny coop! Keep on educating!

They may not die, but they aren’t going to start crying if they feel bad. Many people don’t notice a chicken has a serious health issue until the chicken dies from it.
Even if you say your chickens are fine eating layer feed when they aren’t supposed to have it, doesn’t mean someone else’s won’t get a serious issue and die. It’s like walking on a train track. Sure you may not get hurt, but someone else undoubtedly will.

Mistakes are something to learn from, not to tell your friends it’s fine do replicate your mistakes. Just the next time someone asks if they can feed a non laying chicken layer feed, say they can’t. It’s really not good for them so they may not die, but it shouldn’t be done.

And btw if you know all your information from an old magazine article I would do some more research. A lot has changed since that was probably published and it is never bad to do some more research. Many people jump into chickens based on little information and it’s not bad, but it’s not ideal. Go out and do some more research and see what you find. It never hurts to know a little bit more on a subject.

 

[Doc7]

what caused a chicken boom in 2008? Recession? Or is this not as literal as I take it?

 

[Ihavesomechickens]

what caused a chicken boom in 2008? Recession? Or is this not as literal as I take it?

Oh it’s just when people realized chickens were pretty cool animals that made lovely pets and started taking care of them. That is around the time the idea of pet chickens became really popular, and we got chicken diapers and leashes and harnesses and such.

 

[Homesteadermomma6382]

So here is my question.. If I'm feeding a low calcium feed and offering oyster shell whats to keep the non layers from eating the oyster shell?